How come they can invade me but ...

[jackbush]

How come other Catholic countries can all invade me but the Pope takes a hissy if I give any of them a hard time? Is it because my relations with that particular Pope are so lousy? If the Pope loved me would he take my side?

[Oxode]

I think it's just to add a little challenge to the game. I remember having a full 10 crosses, and the pope still told me to cease hostilities when I attacked a fellow Catholic Neighbour.

[The Useless Member]

I think it's just to add a little challenge to the game. I remember having a full 10 crosses, and the pope still told me to cease hostilities when I attacked a fellow Catholic Neighbour.

He told me to end hostilities with a country who had 2 crosses and I had 9.

[jackbush]

Well, I think I'm just going to ignore the pope and blast away. I suppose that will bring all the other Catholic countries down on my head but, what the heck, how long can you hold off attacking Portugal when they keep attacking me? And they're weaker than I am, for pete's sake!

[Host of Valhalla]

Don't worry about "his highness", first he will give you a warning at which point you can stop and continue fighting another country, but beware, they will continue attacking you. It doesn't matter how high your standings are with the pope, if you initiate the attack he will take the defendant's side. But if your standings are too low, he won't give you a warning and instead will just threaten to excommunicate you which you should avoid at all costs.

Excommunication will make all the other Catholic factions (not guaranteed, but worst case scenario), will call a crusade and declare war on you. It will also add to the unrest in all your settlements, in case they already weren't hard enough to keep under control.

My guess is to march several armies through their territories (reducing your relationship with them in the process) and surround all their settlements. Then, simultaneously, besiege all settlements and take them, in turn eliminating the faction and the possibility of getting in trouble with the pope further.

[stratfiend]

The Pope is a dick to other factions too. If a Catholic faction continually attacks you and you're not excommed, they'll eventually get excommed themselves. This is why its often wise to play defensively. Defensive battles tend to mean less losses, then as soon as your enemy is excommed then you can invade in full force. Early in the game when you're limited on money for massive army upkeep, seeing the excom threat after you just started besieging a defenseless city is quite dis-heartening. Like the previous guy said its best to try to take multiple settlements on the same turn though, as the Pope will redeem the faction once he feels you've sufficiently punished them (normally after taking a town or two).

Probably the easiest way to deal with the Pope is to train up a few highly skilled Assassins and keep them near him. Just invade whoever you damn well feel like and if you get excommed just assassinate the current Pope. This absolves the excom and starts a new Papal Election. Problem solved. Just avoid warring the Papal States, as this will earn you an excom that is difficult to get rid of.

[Rex_Romanorum]

To be honest I like this mechanic in M2. It's fun as a Catholic faction having to balance your relationship with the Papacy (especially if, like me, you play as the Holy Roman Empire and so inevitably are forced to go to war with the Papal States in the end anyway), and it always provides the situation where wars are shorter and more realistic. Unlike in Rome you're not launching one massive war of conquest; you gotta' fight in shorter, more controlled bursts. Sometimes, yes, it pays to be cynical and lock down an entire nation with besieging armies so that you can obliterate them in a turn or two, but for those without the bank account to fund such a major incursion you'll have to get used to fighting shorter wars with tighter personal objectives...at least until you find yourself bordering a Muslim or Orthodox country. Then the kid gloves are off

This works on the other shoe as well; playing as a Muslim or Orthodox country and expanding deep into Catholic Europe will bring the ire of the Popes and, by extension, all other Catholic Kings down on your head, meaning if you wanna' keep your European Empire, you're gonna' have to work for it. All in all, I personally like it.

[Oxode]

Sometimes for me a good tactic is to just leave armies in spots where the enemy can attack or where you can gain.

For example; I have a army capable of laying siege to a nearby enemy settlement, the Pope sent me a warning so I can't attack without risking excommunication. Basically just leave that army next to the city but not besiege it, if the enemy is dumb enough, they'll constantly leave the city or bring in a army to attack it, if you're close enough, the enemy garrison will also be brought to the fray (assuming their reinforcements arrive). Once you win the battle, the garrison is hopefully wiped out, if not, rinse and repeat. If you're lucky, constant enemy attacks can make the Pope excommunicate them and you can finally make a blitzkrieg across their territory. If you're really strong and have confidence in taking on more than 3 opponents, then you can just go with the blitzkrieg and just ignore excommunication.

[NoobaLoob]

Not to parrot what others on the thread have said however..

Its just to add difficultly, especially if your taking other countries cities I've noticed that you get the warning much faster then if you just started attacking armies near your cities.

However if you keep your favor up to like 8-10 with the pope you can generally take 2-3 cities from any NPC because the first warning you get will say "Cease Hostilities or your favor will go down significantly" followed after 2-3 turns with the threat of excommunication.

Also remember to ALWAYS ally the Papal States first (and everyone else aside maybe 1-2 close NPC factions) if you have a lot of allies and someone attacks you (which they will) that will give you a free pass to hit them since you'll have the "reliable" reputation while the NPC will have an "Untrustworthy" rep.

[Ishan]

If an AI catholic faction attacks another catholic faction then his pope-o-meter also drops and AI also eventually gets excommunicated.

[Yojimbo]

If an AI catholic faction attacks another catholic faction then his pope-o-meter also drops and AI also eventually gets excommunicated.

lol pope-o-meter reminds me of Viking prince.

anyway just keep a diplomat near the pope and bribe him with 500 or so every few turns when you are figuring somebody and he wont care. also leave armies on bridges and other places where you can entice the enemy to attack you first if they do so it will lower their standing and he will probably side with you rather than them.

Alternately just assassinate him every few turns. You can also just ignore him do what you want and then kill him later to render the excon null.

[The Useless Member]

If an AI catholic faction attacks another catholic faction then his pope-o-meter also drops and AI also eventually gets excommunicated.

The thing is, I don't think the AI factions CARE if they're excommunicated.

[The Kybrothilian]

I played England in SS and I continuously get a message from Pope to stop attacking the Scots, even when my own cardinal was a pope. And the Scots don't even lose crosses for attacking me.

[ash874]

How come other Catholic countries can all invade me but the Pope takes a hissy if I give any of them a hard time? Is it because my relations with that particular Pope are so lousy? If the Pope loved me would he take my side?

i envy you so much
you only just discovered the game........

[eXistenZ]

the pope is a huge dickhead when it comes to that type of situation

so you see, nothing has changed in 900+ years

[ash874]

the pope is a huge dickhead when it comes to that type of situation

so you see, nothing has changed in 900+ years

actually in a full campaign with the HRE and two campaigns with byzantium, the pope was loyal to me for the entire game
with byzzys its even strange

[Double A]

I played England in SS and I continuously get a message from Pope to stop attacking the Scots, even when my own cardinal was a pope. And the Scots don't even lose crosses for attacking me.

Your faction's Pope is more lenient and you start with full crosses on the pope-o-meter. Usually.