isengard just doesn't play right.....

[Green_Jacket]

I've been playing third age for two weeks now and love the game, all the factions are great and the balancing has been done really well, until it comes to isengard..... Now the game taken most of its inspiration from the films so I'm a bit stumped with the uruk hai's role.

Now in the book (correct me if I'm wrong) there was nothing that special about uruk hai I believe there's only a couple of references of even being under that name, also their strength and ferocity is not that different to an average ork. Now if this is what's been used as a reference then the uruk hai in third age TW are over powered.

HOWEVER.... If the film is the games inspiration then the uruk hai should be ferocious orks, who don't have qualms fighting in daylights and are less likely to run and more than a match for man (or no professional elves). The main weakness of orks is like comparing them to real life gauls, in a one to one with an average human they should come up on top, however lack of discipline means they rely on horde/wave tactics.

Uruk's however have discipline, and even more strength and violence. This means that like in the films they should pretty much wipe the floor against humans, especially those on foot, and their armour should be stronger than most other non elven armour. However in this mod the raiders/scout uruk's for some reason aew weaker than their heavy armour brethrin, now while agree that the mordor varient should be reduced the normal raiders should only have less armour, there's no reason their attack stat should be 2 points lower. If anything they should 'possibly' have a higher attack stat seeing their slightly more feral and also being the first uruks bred!

It means that quite early on the uruks don't quite have the punch they should, they should pretty much dominate all rohan inf from the start of the campaign, if you look at films for reference they only ever got owned by elves or mounted riders and even then their size reduced their effectiveness. A good thing though is the heavy varient has the correct resistance to bow fire. Uruk's should in a one to one against basic human inf really should always come out of it on top, and the cost of this should be a relatively higher recruitment and upkeep cost.

[Garriath]

While I'm not sure that uruk-hai should be quite as powerful as you suggest, I absolutely agree that Isengard needs a serious buff. In the books and movies, Saruman's power was made out to be almost unstoppable, defeated only by the wizard's hastiness, Gandalf's intervention, and the Ents' revenge. In the game, I find Rohan to benefit from superb armies (cavalry is more than a little overpowered) and a great economy. Gondor is always a very exciting battleground in every game, but I've never seen Isengard pose a real threat to Rohan. I do wish that would change.

[Nemesis_GR]

To anyone complaining about units balance i have one suggestion-get RC.

ps.check my sig.

[Green_Jacket]

To be honest I really don't get why scout uruk-hai have less attack than their heavy armoured counterparts seeing their only difference is the fact they're not wearing as much armour. Tbh I would be happy with their attack stats just being the same (its 6 I think for the heavies) with reavers having 7. Just to make them that tiny bit more loyal to the film.

Also noticed why isengard never gets strong, its economy does not seem that strong, their really should be an option to build some awesome logging camps especially in fangorn and isengard! Also having the wood elves, high elves, rohan and those men who get bree (can't remember their name) attacking you all at once, even on normal, I find you have to be on the defensive when isengard should be a very aggressive faction to play as.

Your suppose to dominate the misty mountains after all! Its the whole reason the fellowship took the route through moira

[Romaneck]

To be honest I really don't get why scout uruk-hai have less attack than their heavy armoured counterparts seeing their only difference is the fact they're not wearing as much armour.

RC solves this, but I can give you a lame ass explanation that simply they are stronger due to being used to wearing heavier armor, thus the strenght carried by their arms is greater which results in the addition of the numerical value of 1

[Tatoru]

I think Isengard needs some love in next patch in a way how to place this faction correctly and functionally into game. It is possible right now, but you have to do it by yourself. Means make alliance with gondor - peace with rohan - alliance with rohan - alliance with elves and eriador, attack OotMM and take their lands* - build economy, secretly support Mordor, and after you have large elite army attack Rohan and anihilate them. Rest is uncertain anyway.

*about this it would be nice to have some script like if you actually conquer Moria as Isengard, rest of OotMM faction became yours or something like that to simulate power of Saruman in this way.

[Ngugi]

Well then, here you have two options Green;

- Easier, but possibly not what you want: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=518028

- Bit of an effort, but will be spot on: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=221093

[Zafersan]

I like those ideas Tatoru. I also feel Isengard is weak-sauce. I need a buff harsh and the Uruks just seem to weak. I am playing RC for the first time so I am about to experience fighting them as Eriador.

[grinder]

Strange. With the possibility to play pretty much pike and shot in late game (which the AI never seems to be able to do anything against), I always figured Isengard would do fine. They do not have much cavalry, but against a cavalry dominating faction like Rohan, it would not do that much anyway, I think.
Other than that Isengard seems to be very well equipped. They have plate pikemen, plate crossbowmen, plate swordsmen, both cheap and elite shock infantry, solid light/medium infantry and archers. And all of them come in big numbers. That should be a very solid roster... If anything I think the economy is the problem. To balance the small number of starting provinces out, perhaps Isengard (the city) alone should be able to pay for one full stack.