Why do so many people on the Internet believe in Austrian economics?

[Astaroth]

This is actually fairly intersting imo. Just go to random youtube videos, reddit posts, blogs or discussion pages on news sites -- many people there seem to be big fans of Austrian economics, although I'm pretty sure that most of them do not have a college degree in economics.

Now my question is: why?

I don't want to discredit actual economists who consider themselves Austrians, but here are my thoughts on why it appeals to so many others:

• It seems somewhat easier to understand than "mainstream" economics
• the basic ideas appeal to people's "gut feeling"
• you don't need to know any maths/statistics ()
• many libertarians agree with it (and libertarianism is HUGE on the internet)

Thoughts?

[DaVinci]

You answered to the "Why" already with

many libertarians agree with it (and libertarianism is HUGE on the internet)

Simply put, google after the term libertarianism and you'll find also the Austrian school aka Ludwig von Mises and Friedrich Hayek.

The supporters of libertarianism seek for (modern) theories which can back up their economical and overall political views, possibly to find more followers. And surely the majority of them have no grasp of economics and related political stuff, as the Austrian school is not really accepted as a working model by modern serious economists. At least not a valid model, afaik, for serious european economists, perhaps except Britain but i don't know, not sure about other anglo-saxon economies like the US, possibly (rather probably) the Austrian school is still a serious theme there aka valid model, in school and university. /Edit: Could be, also many Russians like the approach.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Because all those ''characteristics'' of Mainstream Economics have pushed the ''less facts and more talk'' people into the borders of the discipline, which can only make themselves heard on a totally free of actual criticism environment, the Internetz.

Another big reason, and I'm quoting this from a TWC user.

It's all so simple to me nowadays. The more I've studied philosophy, politics and economics the simpler the world has become.

Simple, simplicity of understanding is the key. That's the reason why marxism drags some many people around as well, and usually the loudest ones.

[DaVinci]

Simple, simplicity of understanding is the key. That's the reason why marxism drags some many people around as well, and usually the loudest ones.

Lol. Putting the Austrian school together with Marxism in this approach of argumentation is another simplicity. Didn't expect that from you.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Lol. Putting the Austrian school together with Marxism in this approach of argumentation is another simplicity. Didn't expect that from you.

Orthodox Marxism and the Austrian school reek of academic oversimplification, empirical failures and narrowed world-views. Both stand over a glorious and well-corroborated pile of empirical mumbo-jumbo.

[DaVinci]

Orthodox Marxism and the Austrian school reek of academic oversimplification, empirical failures and narrowed world-views.

Hm, while i can agree, you could add quite a lot other ideologies or philosophies or part-interpretations of them to the list of

oversimplification, empirical failures and narrowed world-views

when used by supporters in (public) discussions, but the used term "academic" is critical, because a real academic approach is usually not "oversimplification", but the contrary, a complex investigation and analysis and building at the end a synthesis.

Edit: I tried something like that (an approach vs. simplification regarding historical/political themes) here on TWC quite some years ago now, a kind of course, it failed, such threads are not frequented ... so ... on internet-platforms with discussion-forums, one can indeed not expect seriously something else than simplicity, we all do it here, including me of course, i lost any other motivation.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Hm, while i can agree to this, you could add quite a lot other ideologies or part-interpretations of them to the list of

Well... that's true. But we are critizing ''fringe spectrums'' which are most easily found on the internet.

but the used term "academic" is critical, because a real academic approach is usually not "oversimplification", but the contrary, a complex investigation and analysis and building at the end a synthesis.

Exactly, using academic methods(or more specifically, methods that were considered academic a hundred and twenty years ago) an reaching oversimplied conclusions, taking on complex matters and ''academically''(or at least apparenting to be so) bringin them to 2 variables of ideological choice(''subjective rationality'' or ''class struggle'') that hold or little value to expanding the field or understanding the problem.

[Thorn777]

Also because Silicon Valley is full of them + they got much moolah to spend on websites, clips, and such. They even are going to build their own island to show how its done.

Shame this guy isnt named Ryan.

[Inkie]

Well I largely agree with OP - I would say the main appealing elements of Austrian economics are:

- Simplicity.
- Optimism: They offer a form of individual empowerment and freedom without having many hippie-like arguments, instead sanctifying basic human desires to accumulate wealth.
- Coolness: The radical, strong minded Austrian, an 'enemy of the state' in a suit and tie who is intellectual rather than emotional, appeals to young people because of advocating the above elements without seeming like the passé, cliché childishness of left-wing Anarchism and Socialism, the hippie/rebel counterculture of the late 20th century which teens/students are eager to dissociate themselves from. It's the new accepted radicalism.
- The Austrian can deny empirical attempts to refute the possibility of such a system working, claiming that there 'never has been' a true Austrian state, or perhaps pointing to 'golden ages' of capitalism and likening them to the virtues of Austrian economics. Therefore, the school is not burdened by given ideas such as the impossibility of successful Communist states, which most people accept today and support with (perhaps imperfect) historical arguments.

The trend nowadays is to oppose government intervention and spending, and opposing state power has long been popular amongst young people. I guess we've gone through the Marxist and anarchist phases, so the current relatively popular idealistic theory is Austrian school economics.

[DaVinci]

Well I largely agree with OP - I would say the main appealing elements of Austrian economics are:

- Simplicity.
- Optimism: They offer a form of individual empowerment and freedom without having many hippie-like arguments, instead sanctifying basic human desires to accumulate wealth.
- Coolness: The radical, strong minded Austrian, an 'enemy of the state' in a suit and tie who is intellectual rather than emotional, appeals to young people because of advocating the above elements without seeming like the passé, cliché childishness of left-wing Anarchism and Socialism, the hippie/rebel counterculture of the late 20th century which teens/students are eager to dissociate themselves from. It's the new accepted radicalism.
- The Austrian can deny empirical attempts to refute the possibility of such a system working, claiming that there 'never has been' a true Austrian state, or perhaps pointing to 'golden ages' of capitalism and likening them to the virtues of Austrian economics. Therefore, the school is not burdened by given ideas such as the impossibility of successful Communist states, which most people accept today and support with (perhaps imperfect) historical arguments.

The trend nowadays is to oppose government intervention and spending, and opposing state power has long been popular amongst young people. I guess we've gone through the Marxist and anarchist phases, so the current relatively popular idealistic theory is Austrian school economics.

What the hell?

How is that cool and radical, when many aspects of the Austrian School are basicly conservative items, and regarding the USA brought back to public discussion (and partial application) already with the Reagan era from on the 1980s, which is in itself a neo-conservative item?
Well, i recently learned that Ron Paul is a disciple of the Austrian School, and that his supporters are mainly organised via internet (explains perhaps one main point of the OP). Also i found now that there are around 4 prominent active university professors in the US, which are followers of the Austrian school aka supporters of the Von Mises Institute.

I guess, one answer to the OP is: Another unique appearence from the states.

I'm pretty sure, this is an appearence that will not swap over the rest of the world, and it's for sure not cool and radical (the anarcho attitude of the american Austrian school is simply a dumb naive attitude, not a cool and radical one).

[The spartan]

What the hell?

How is that cool and radical, when many aspects of the Austrian School are basicly conservative items, and regarding the USA brought back to public discussion (and partial application) already with the Reagan era from on the 1980s, which is in itself a neo-conservative item?
Well, i recently learned that Ron Paul is a disciple of the Austrian School, and that his supporters are mainly organised via internet (explains perhaps one main point of the OP). Also i found now that there are around 4 prominent active university professors in the US, which are followers of the Austrian school aka supporters of the Von Mises Institute.

I guess, one answer to the OP is: Another unique appearence from the states.

I'm pretty sure, this is an appearence that will not swap over the rest of the world, and it's for sure not cool and radical (the anarcho attitude of the american Austrian school is simply a dumb naive attitude, not a cool and radical one).

I think what he means that Austrian Economics appeals to more eccentric individuals who like the non-mainstream view of economics. Not so much that "it's what all the cool kids are doing". I would pretty much agree with his point; Austrian Economics probably appeals to individuals who would be more willing to go on to the internet and debate about it.

[Raubritter]

You can spend your hole lifetime on your psychological estimates why people believe in what they believe, but the answer is way more simple: Its available. And for most of the people internet is the first place they ever hear about other things than what their teachers and media and politicians try to sell them what oppinions they can choose.



So simple it could be. No need for pseudo intellectual double speak, no need for intricate of this-and-that regulation, and as the most important: No force.

[chilon]

You can spend your hole lifetime on your psychological estimates why people believe in what they believe, but the answer is way more simple: Its available. And for most of the people internet is the first place they ever hear about other things than what their teachers and media and politicians try to sell them what oppinions they can choose.

So simple it could be. No need for pseudo intellectual double speak, no need for intricate of this-and-that regulation, and as the most important: No force.

Except Milton Friedman isnt Austrian School, he is Chicago school. There is a big difference as far as economic philosophy and methodology even if both can get labelled as "libertarians" by the dumbed down mainstream media.

[Inkie]

What the hell?

How is that cool and radical, when many aspects of the Austrian School are basicly conservative items, and regarding the USA brought back to public discussion (and partial application) already with the Reagan era from on the 1980s, which is in itself a neo-conservative item?

I don't find that these factors make it any less stylish for someone to declare themselves a supporter of Austrian economics, nor does it stop them from arguing the points I outlined. Note that I'm not trying to lump all Austrians as a bunch of irrationals - rather I'm putting forward the idea that many young bloods are attracted to the school for those reasons. Although I've spoken with quite a few Austrians IRL in my time, I'm guessing part of the reason why you hear more of them online is because most people will be more cautious with their opinions in the former and more confident in the latter.

While radical Austrian speakers gain widespread support on the internet, IRL it seems to me that they are often avoided, at least in informal discussion. The former allows for supporters to gather and debate over long periods of time, whereas IRL most discussions are brief, and if the Austrian has no supporters in proximity, they will be in isolation. Perhaps this is just my own, limited experience of things, but typically in seminars and group discussions, Austrians or those with similar views pass off as outpoken, arrogant and confrontational, which is part of the reason why dealing with them IRL is less pleasant than reading their tirades against state intervention/central planning online.

[DaVinci]

I don't find that these factors make it any less stylish for someone to declare themselves a supporter of Austrian economics, nor does it stop them from arguing the points I outlined. Note that I'm not trying to lump all Austrians as a bunch of irrationals - rather I'm putting forward the idea that many young bloods are attracted to the school for those reasons. Although I've spoken with quite a few Austrians IRL in my time, I'm guessing part of the reason why you hear more of them online is because most people will be more cautious with their opinions in the former and more confident in the latter.

While radical Austrian speakers gain widespread support on the internet, IRL it seems to me that they are often avoided, at least in informal discussion. The former allows for supporters to gather and debate over long periods of time, whereas IRL most discussions are brief, and if the Austrian has no supporters in proximity, they will be in isolation. Perhaps this is just my own, limited experience of things, but typically in seminars and group discussions, Austrians or those with similar views pass off as outpoken, arrogant and confrontational, which is part of the reason why dealing with them IRL is less pleasant than reading their tirades against state intervention/central planning online.

Ok, now i understand you better in this regard.

[Enemy of the State]

Well I largely agree with OP - I would say the main appealing elements of Austrian economics are:

- Simplicity.
- Optimism: They offer a form of individual empowerment and freedom without having many hippie-like arguments, instead sanctifying basic human desires to accumulate wealth.
- Coolness: The radical, strong minded Austrian, an 'enemy of the state' in a suit and tie who is intellectual rather than emotional, appeals to young people because of advocating the above elements without seeming like the passé, cliché childishness of left-wing Anarchism and Socialism, the hippie/rebel counterculture of the late 20th century which teens/students are eager to dissociate themselves from. It's the new accepted radicalism.
- The Austrian can deny empirical attempts to refute the possibility of such a system working, claiming that there 'never has been' a true Austrian state, or perhaps pointing to 'golden ages' of capitalism and likening them to the virtues of Austrian economics. Therefore, the school is not burdened by given ideas such as the impossibility of successful Communist states, which most people accept today and support with (perhaps imperfect) historical arguments.

The trend nowadays is to oppose government intervention and spending, and opposing state power has long been popular amongst young people. I guess we've gone through the Marxist and anarchist phases, so the current relatively popular idealistic theory is Austrian school economics.

Austrian economics isn't the same as libertarianism. Austrian economics is value free, it answers what is, not what should be. Austrians don't oppose government intervention and spending, liberals do that. The Austrian can only say what a government policy will actually result in. Wheter the result is good or bad is up to you to decide.

Austrian economics is popular on the internet because it makes sense and because it is experiencing a general revival. Austrian economics is indeed fairly simple to understand, at least the basic gist of it(Try reading Human Action or Man, Economy and The State though!). That doesn't make it wrong. "Mainstream" economics has become totally detached from reality. Economics is a social science, which mainstream economists seem to forget all the time.

[Vizsla]

Margaret Thatcher was a big fan of Friedrich Hayek.
Depending on where you stand on the political spectrum that piece of evidence could convince either way.

http://www.adamsmith.org/research/ar...cure-recession
That’s all I’m saying.

[Inkie]

Austrian economics isn't the same as libertarianism. Austrian economics is value free, it answers what is, not what should be. Austrians don't oppose government intervention and spending, liberals do that. The Austrian can only say what a government policy will actually result in. Wheter the result is good or bad is up to you to decide.

Austrian economics is popular on the internet because it makes sense and because it is experiencing a general revival. Austrian economics is indeed fairly simple to understand, at least the basic gist of it(Try reading Human Action or Man, Economy and The State though!). That doesn't make it wrong. "Mainstream" economics has become totally detached from reality. Economics is a social science, which mainstream economists seem to forget all the time.

Yes, what I didn't elaborate enough in my post was that I believe most arguments online from Austrians take a more radical form, and oppose state intervention and economic regulation. Their approach colours Austrian economics with liberal, libertarian or other values, and usually focuses on criticizing the current policies and stances of governments.

[DaVinci]

Austrian economics isn't the same as libertarianism. Austrian economics is value free, it answers what is, not what should be. Austrians don't oppose government intervention and spending, liberals do that. The Austrian can only say what a government policy will actually result in. Wheter the result is good or bad is up to you to decide.

Austrian economics is popular on the internet because it makes sense and because it is experiencing a general revival. Austrian economics is indeed fairly simple to understand, at least the basic gist of it(Try reading Human Action or Man, Economy and The State though!). That doesn't make it wrong. "Mainstream" economics has become totally detached from reality. Economics is a social science, which mainstream economists seem to forget all the time.

Well, now that i looked into it a bit more: It is since Murray Rothbard's books an american economics movement, that basicly is radical opposed to government. The original approach of von Mises and Hayek isn't at all, despite the fact that these early guys partly critizised government intervention. In other words, the (mainly) american followers (the pupils of those original philosopers) defined the Austrian School "anew", so to speak, and gradually became more radical. Type in 'Murray Rothbard', and everybody can find the info.
And it is easily to find, that many Libertarians have the Austrian School in their books, not only, but it is an important item for them.

Economics is a social science, which mainstream economists seem to forget all the time.

No. Economics science is social science, nobody with a bit knowledge of it would deny that, it is handled as such namely in the university departments.

[Enemy of the State]

Well, now that i looked into it a bit more: It is since Murray Rothbard's books an american economics movement, that basicly is radical opposed to government. The original approach of von Mises and Hayek isn't at all, despite the fact that these early guys partly critizised government intervention. In other words, the (mainly) american followers (the pupils of those original philosopers) defined the Austrian School "anew", so to speak, and gradually became more radical. Type in 'Murray Rothbard', and everybody can find the info.

Von Mises was more of an economist than a political theorist, though he was a radical liberal of course, he primarily concentrated on explaining what is, not what should be. Murray Rothbard was both an economist and a political theorist. Rothbard is the father of the modern libertarian movement. He put into words the ethical framework upon which human society must rest. His works on ethics have been of particular interest to me. I would strongly recommend his book "The Ethics of Liberty".

No. Economics science is social science, nobody with a bit knowledge of it would deny that, it is handled as such namely in the university departments.

They don't deny it, but they tend to forget it in their methodology.