Is it normal that...

[Silver Legionary]

The economy in this mod is FAR tighter than in, say, Stainless Steel?
I mean, I'm still in the black(after building some infrastructure), but
it's been a struggle so far.

EDIT: If it means anything, I'm using H campaign/M battle difficulty,
and am playing as the Ayyubids.

[Ansar Warrior]

Yeah it's a struggle initially but after you get your economy right then expand it's not too bad, BC 2.3 buildings etc are pretty pricey, even more so than in 2.02 I think.

[DirtyACE]

It's tight, especially in the beginning when pretty much any player can expect to go into the red, however, once you accumulate some additional settlements and get your economy improved you'll start to make a handsome profit. However, you also shouldn't expect to have nearly unlimited monetary resources as the upkeep of units seems to be higher in BC than in SS, at least from what I could tell. For example, as Ghorids I held 40 provinces which included everything in India, but I was still actually just about breaking even trying to support 6 full stacks of troops (I'm not counting the city and castle garrisons, just the standing field armies). These were of course comprised of my best units, but still, it was an expensive proposition. Overall I think a slightly tighter economy adds a bit of an extra challenge as you can't be as reckless with your resources.

[Dago Red]

The economy is nice and challenging, moreso than some other mods without being intolerably difficult for the sake of being difficult (ie. TATW). I think the early and mid game are great -- you just need to make tough decisions. If you are the kind of player that just likes to button mash in the campaign mode, building everything everywhere than BC is not for you without a building/economic submod to make it easier.

The only thing it needs is a little late game correction for the piles of money you often end up getting. Higher tier buildings with greater trade offs would help (you want those Royal Ghulams? Well then you have to build a structure that saps a large chunk of your income! It's nice to get to where you might have a 15 or 20 thousand running balance, but when you start having 400,000 income the game loses all challenge. However, these more punitive building choices that hit your income late game should also come with the addition of MUCH more population growth possibility (ie. Stainless Steel) or at least start each faction with one city/fortress within reach that is near the top tier. It just takes way to long to build up cities.

[nein]

you are right, this mod does things differently when it comes to economy. The most important initial objective is to to blitzkrieg rebel settlements... sacking them earns alot of cash but will cost you reputation. This makes it EVEN harder to obtain trade rights and alliances, and may lead to an increased chance of you being attacked. I noticed that TA is heading in the same direction as BC, pricey buildings and weak economy

[Ichon]

The first 10-15 turns might be tight but shortly after you can have more than enough money if you develop right.

[trenchwirez]

Especially if you are playing as ERE and start at -50,000 gold, with no navy to move your troops

[nein]

the debt is easy to recover from, unlike most factions they start with a strong economy, roughly 5k a turn. Taking the nearby rebels also helps speed up the recovery via troop loss and extra cash from the regions themselves

[Iguanaonastick]

True, given time the Romans can easily create a very robust economy.

Problem is, you may not have that time if your neighbours and their large armies come calling.

[jodelofcourt]

Hello,yes ERE can be tough especially for newer players like myself. The fun is in developing your economy while holding off the Turks and KOJ and even Armenia. I thought the game was bugged when i started 50000 in the red,but theres the challenge. If you have cheap construction and recruitment costs and a huge cash reserve the game loses its character and IMO kind of boring. I enjoy trying to beat elite jannissaries w/cheap levys and mercs! These games are as much about economics as they are about military strategy. Just like the real thing! Read P.Kennedys' "The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers - moneys everything in warfare. Just adding my two cents,thanks.

[metsikhovne]

economy is really nice.
only thing that need to be change in mod is gameplay system. there are too many empty spaces on map.
also i really enjoy gamegeeks EDU which is much more realistic then one in 2.3.1.

[Ansar Warrior]

Urgghh I'm not so sure?

I'm on turn 101 and am the Kwareziem and boy is it difficult money wise, I moved into Persia proper and have the whole south coast but still even though I've upgraded building after building after building at least 3-4 times over It's still not keeping up with the expense of my army, in fact "what army" I hardly have one and the tiny one I have is still sapping the hell out of my funds.

Compared to the AI I'm not so sure it's balanced right, the AI spreads so much quicker and has a bigger stacked army even though they don't have more cities than I do.

BC 2.02 was hard enough but at least you could make armies, 2.3.2.1 you'd have to own half the map to make large armies.

Personally I'm finding it a little labouring because I prioritise the eco and it still doesn't make a huge effect.

Might have to use that sub mod

[Ansar Warrior]

Come to think of it is there a sub mod out that deals with costs?

[Ansar Warrior]

Oh mate no way, I just checked my Ghaznavid campaign, I have 18 Cities only a half stack army two buildings only being made and my bank account reads only £609 ...... I mean c'mon! I know were in a recession but this is ridiculous.

I want a cheaper cost mod cause of now I'm heading back to BC 2.02 ..... where it's safe lol.

[Harith]

Oh mate no way, I just checked my Ghaznavid campaign, I have 18 Cities only a half stack army two buildings only being made and my bank account reads only £609 ...... I mean c'mon! I know were in a recession but this is ridiculous.

I want a cheaper cost mod cause of now I'm heading back to BC 2.02 ..... where it's safe lol.

if half of these 18 citties are villages or castles with half a garrison because its ur fronteir then yes... obviously this will happen because it is REAL life situation.The whole point is to make it harder for u. My campaign, I always hit +40k within 50 turns...

its a matter of management and smart maneuvering. Practice more and BC will be a second nature to u.

[nein]

that's what it comes down to iguana... if the rum turks attack you quickly then things can get quite frustrating, but usually in version 2.3 they leave you alone. Taking ani seems to make them go for you everytime so just focus on the nearby town and fort in anatolia

''I'm on turn 101 and am the Kwareziem and boy is it difficult money wise''

most of their units are costly... very few cheap levies to garrison conquered regions. You need to recruit cheap units to fill the garrisons... this will take time. Use expensive units and then disband them as you slowly but surely add cheaper units, this will improve the economy. Also refrain from making a stack of elites, in vanilla 2.3 light horse archers are deadly... and cost effective. You can recruit loads from afghanistan

[Ansar Warrior]

if half of these 18 citties are villages or castles with half a garrison because its ur fronteir then yes... obviously this will happen because it is REAL life situation.The whole point is to make it harder for u. My campaign, I always hit +40k within 50 turns...

its a matter of management and smart maneuvering. Practice more and BC will be a second nature to u.

Dude seriously ..... I've been playing this game for years and have completed the whole map on BC and vanilla.

Also note that I said I had "One" half army not a half army for each province, the towns and castles etc have not much more than a few units which you need to keep the settlement from rebelling.

Use "Edit Post" button, please, to add new content to your post.

How many family members do you have? Do you accept all adoptions?

Ok mate will do.

I don't accept any adoptions unless I really need to because I like to keep the royal family blood line also I do keep an eye on how many family members I have, if there are to many I either replace settlement units with a family member to install law and order so it's virtually a swap or I send them into battle so either way they benefit on income.

Overall what I'm finding although this is a personal preference is that the economy has become so restrictive on funds that you just can't maintain armies of any decent size yet the AI walks around with almost full stack armies so if like in my Kwariziem campaign I'm attacked from both sides (south persia) by Abbasids in the west and Sindh in the east I'm completely out of funds even though I've upgraded constantly, have hardly any army and need to keep law and order.

With the balance of expensive upgrades, restrictive funds and an expensive up keep of soldiers I'm squeezed to the point of fending off the AI on pure generalship alone although with the quality of my settlements this should not be the case.

BC 2.02 was a step up in difficulty compared to vanilla, 2.3.2.1 is leaning towards unfair lol.

In my Ghaznavid campaign I'm the strongest faction in the East yet can hardly raise more than one to two armies and maintain it for more than a few turns, with the number of settlements it doesn't seem balanced.
God knows how I'm going to deal with the Mongols 8 or more fully stacked armies.

[wudang_clown]

Use "Edit Post" button, please, to add new content to your post.

How many family members do you have? Do you accept all adoptions?

[gnosis89]

I find the BC economy to be far more enjoyable than any other MTW2 mod. It can actually be a challenge! After playing TW for so long it´s rather easy to simply build many economic buildings quickly and aquire a ridiculious amount of money rather quickly. In BC loosing just one city can impact your economy greatly, which makes defending all the important, not just because you don´t want to lose territory, but also because your economy will take quite the hit as well.

[Ichon]

BC economy seems the most balanced I agree. Its not impossible but takes management and costs can impact long term strategy as it should be. Half the mods you can nearly totally ignore economy and be fine which makes it quite boring within 50 turns as there is nothing really providing any challenge aside from how fast you can expand, not ever a doubt IF you can expand...