Dale tips!

[Nemesis_GR]

Ok many people are complaining that Dale is too hard or that Rhun is too powerful.So here are some tips for dale:

Economy:Standard 3.1 stuff.Set all taxes to low,build farms/roads/markets in this order.Dont build anything else until u get a stable economy that can support around 1 and a half stacks.

Army:Your power is archers-train nothing but woodsmen and heathen watchmen until u get a stable economy.Make good use of your starting troops-dont lose them.

Strategy:This is the most important part.You cant really fight a two-front war with rhun.So here is what u do:
1.Asap gather all your troops to one stack plus train a couple heathen watchmen and leave only one garrison unit(heathen watchmen) to each settlement and maybe a general in dale or esgaroth as governor.
2.Conquer settlements in this order:Araw/Dorwinion/Kuvangod.Taking them with minimal casualties is a essential.
The point in this is that u wont get attacked by Rhun from the south since there are two rebel settlement between you.Rhun is at war with u so they will focus on Kuvangod.
3.Once u get Kuvangod u have to move a half stack to defend the bridge.A general,4 heathen watchmen and 6 woodsmen can defeat even a Rhun full stack.Plan ahead so when u take kuvangod this force is almost ready.(recruited form dale/araw).
4.Then move your main force to take Rhovanion/Uldonavan and then attack Rhun on that front.
5.Waiting a bit until u get a mission to conquer each rebel settlement can really help your economy.So dont recruit a diplomat to avoid the trade right missions/silvan elves will come to u really soon(around turn 4) so u wont lose any money through trade rights.
6.Taking 3 Rhun settlement to the south(tirith thoron/bur ermarikis and the other one) while defending the bridge at Kuvangod is your objective.It is not that hard.
7.After that i recommend holding your expansion until u get some 2nd tier untis from Uldonovan because the next settlements have garrison script.But you could finish Rhun off if you have enough troops.
8.This is a solid strategy that will work if your combat skills are decent.I upload my latest dale savegame to check it.hf

ps.i play with RC and some other minor modifications.
ps2.sorry for some errors in settlement names.

[Emperor of Hell]

Good tips. Only it's a dwarven save

[Mhaedros]

The military campaign your suggesting sounds awfully a lot like my plan for my current Dale campaign. I believe I wrote it down somewhere here...

[Nemesis_GR]

lol wrong save .I fixed it.

@Mhaedros i think i read a strategy somewhere.Iirc u suggested attacking from the back through kuvagod right?:S

edit:the savegame i uploaded is around 10 turns after the main strategy is complete.

[Mhaedros]

I said that I was going to try to rush for Araw, Uldonavan, Dorwinion and then Kugavod.

[Nemesis_GR]

Ok i used to do something like that but the problem is that if u take Rhovanion or Uldonavan then Rhun will attack u right away on the southern front.Thats a crucial point.As long as the AI is at war with a neighbouring faction it will not attack rebel settlements-instead it focuses on attacking its enemy(in our case Kuvangod) thus giving you valuable time to attack them at the southern front when u are ready through taking these two rebel settlements yourself while holding the bridge at Kuvangod.

Anyway if u can find that post where u describe your strategy feel free to re-post it here.Generally anyone who wants to post another strategy is welcome.hf

[brasswire]

Ok i used to do something like that but the problem is that if u take Rhovanion or Uldonavan then Rhun will attack u right away on the southern front.Thats a crucial point.As long as the AI is at war with a neighbouring faction it will not attack rebel settlements-instead it focuses on attacking its enemy(in our case Kuvangod) thus giving you valuable time to attack them at the southern front when u are ready through taking these two rebel settlements yourself while holding the bridge at Kuvangod.

I've always found grabbing Uldonavon first as Dale to be a solid strategy. If you leave Kugavod alone, the Dwarves will often attack Rhun there for you. Maybe not always, but even if they don't it's not the end of the world, and if they do it brings a valuable ally into the conflict on your side and protecting your flank. Meanwhile you control the castle at Uldonavon and can produce higher quality units than anything Rhun can throw at you in the early game.

Anyways, Dale should be able to handle Rhun mostly on their own in a normal game. What makes it very hard is if the Dwarves and/or Silvans run into bad luck and you find yourself facing Rhun + Mordor or Rhun + Orcs sooner than you're ready.

[Flavius Tiberius Germanicus]

Nice Tips. But I have a question... Why the hell is King Bard I. in the Third Age Campaign still alive!? He died three years before the start (2977). You can read it in the Appendix of Lord of the Rings, or in any good Tolkien-wiki. :-)

Sry, I'm historian, maybe I take it a little bit to seriously. :-D I will change it for my own Dale campaign. :-D

Lang leben die Könige von Thal!

[brapollo]

I've always found grabbing Uldonavon first as Dale to be a solid strategy. If you leave Kugavod alone, the Dwarves will often attack Rhun there for you. Maybe not always, but even if they don't it's not the end of the world, and if they do it brings a valuable ally into the conflict on your side and protecting your flank. Meanwhile you control the castle at Uldonavon and can produce higher quality units than anything Rhun can throw at you in the early game.

Anyways, Dale should be able to handle Rhun mostly on their own in a normal game. What makes it very hard is if the Dwarves and/or Silvans run into bad luck and you find yourself facing Rhun + Mordor or Rhun + Orcs sooner than you're ready.

That worked in 2.1 but does not in 3.1. The Rhun/Dale balance changed greatly and the Dwarves do not provide enough of a threat to Rhun to make a difference. In 3.1, the alternative strategy described by the OP is your best bet.

But in reference to the strategy laid out by the OP, in a vanilla game, you are lucky if you somehow hold the bridge near Kugavod. There's a river crossing further north and Rhun will simply walk up and around your army on the bridge crossing and attack Kugavod directly. They did that in my last game fairly early and the best you can hope for is good fortune and hope that doesn't happen to you. And if you lose Kugavod, it's essentially game over for Dale. A successful Dale campaign may be had, but it seems to me to be predicated totally on luck.

[brasswire]

That worked in 2.1 but does not in 3.1. The Rhun/Dale balance changed greatly and the Dwarves do not provide enough of a threat to Rhun to make a difference.

In my current 3.1 game as Dale on VH/VH the Dwarves successfully beseiged Kugavod to take it from Rhun and are currently still holding it.

[brapollo]

That has happened for me too. But it won't last and I would only play that as a temporary respite.

[Lothar135]

But in reference to the strategy laid out by the OP, in a vanilla game, you are lucky if you somehow hold the bridge near Kugavod. There's a river crossing further north and Rhun will simply walk up and around your army on the bridge crossing and attack Kugavod directly..

It happend in my game also. Kugavod bridge was ignored by Rhun and their armies have been going around and attacking my territory directly.

Btw. It seems to me that Uldonavan is vital, Nemesis. If you do not take it, Rhun will. Then good luck with siege battle while you try to capture that castle, using only woodsmen and watchmen.

[Nemesis_GR]

Ofcource u take Uldonavan guys.But in the order i said...In my campaign using this strategy i took Uldonavan in turn 17.

Yes sometimes a Rhun army might do the circle and attack Kuvangod directly.Happened to me also but i had no problem taking out the almost full stack they send.The thing is that it will take them a while to do this so your defending force should be ready.

If u rush everything u get into a two-front war too soon.Not taking Dorvinion to avoid this is wrong imo.Since it's a rich settlement and it has available almost all Dale's aor units.(except Earls).

Anyway the whole point of the strategy is that it buys u time and lets u attack on your own terms while you avoid getting constantly harrased by Rhun.



ps.i upload a savegame with my progress.Rhun is ready to fall!One final battle awaits!

[nein]

lolled at heathen watchmen

[Mhaedros]

Well, it was more a theory that it might work, and I haven't had time to test it yet

[Incredible Bulk]

Making an alliance with dwarves and Gondor is crucial

[Mhaedros]

Your allied with the dwarves from the start

[Incredible Bulk]

By the way this is nicely written it would be nice of 5 or 6 really successful players to their heads together and added to this with every faction, many a strategy manual for the players that are new or not very good

[Mhaedros]

Maybe I should make one for the dwarves?

[Incredible Bulk]

Good idea your the dwarve wiz