Virginia's Transvaginal Ultrasound Bill

[MathiasOfAthens]

CNN Contributor Dana Loesch Defends Virginia ‘State-Sponsored Rape’ Bill As No Different Than Consensual Sex

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This week, a Virginia state House committee overwhelmingly approved a bill requiring women to receive an ultrasound before they can have an abortion. Because the majority of abortions happen in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, many women would have to undergo an invasive procedure “in which a probe is inserted into the vagina, and then moved around until an ultrasound image is produced,” as Dahlia Lithwick explained last week. CNN contributor and Andrew Breitbart blogger Dana Loesch, however, sees no problem with a law that effectively legalizes state-sponsored rape, saying the procedure is no different than penetration that occurred during consensual intercourse that “resulted in the pregnancy,” as Little Green Footballs reported: LOESCH: That’s the big thing that progressives are trying to say, that it’s rape and so on and so forth. [...] There were individuals saying, “Oh what about the Virginia rape? The rapes that, the forced rapes of women who are pregnant?” What? Wait a minute, they had no problem having similar to a trans-vaginal procedure when they engaged in the act that resulted in their pregnancy.

Clearly the bill is forced rape on women seeking abortion even those in a first trimester where you cant really see a freaking baby... but regardless the bill doesnt force the women to watch the screen, just to get poked in their vagina for awhile? Govt sanctioned torture?

[Garbarsardar]

a bill requiring women to receive

It is obvious that women are required to have consensual sex.

Strange, since in most languages, the forcible insertion of something into a woman's vagina without her consent is called rape.

[Davius]

It is obvious that women are required to have consensual sex.

Strange, since in most languages, the forcible insertion of something into a woman's vagina without her consent is called rape.

How is it rape if you're going to get an abortion anyway?

Does anyone here know what an abortion entails?

Let's just say, scrape -n- vac.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Do any of you know what ultrasound is? There is no insertion of anything.

Unless you are some obstetrician of some sort, I'll stick to the article:

Because the majority of abortions happen in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, many women would have to undergo an invasive procedure “in which a probe is inserted into the vagina, and then moved around until an ultrasound image is produced,”

[Heinz Guderian]

How is it rape if you're going to get an abortion anyway?

Does anyone here know what an abortion entails?

.

isnt it about consent? if you want to stick something inside a woman, you must get here to say "ok" before you do.

[Davius]

isnt it about consent? if you want to stick something inside a woman, you must get here to say "ok" before you do.

I'm pro choice. That said, she's consenting to having a scraping and vacuuming tool inserted and aggressively removing the fetus. I don't see how an ultrasound beforehand is such a big deal.

[Heinz Guderian]

I'm pro choice. That said, she's consenting to having a scraping and vacuuming tool inserted and aggressively removing the fetus. I don't see how an ultrasound beforehand is such a big deal.

unless its an abortion using Mifeprex. but do you think this is just a ruse to try to make the woman see an image of her fetus so she doesnt carry out an abortion rather than a necessary medical procedure? If it is an unnecessary invasive medical procedure, then thats gross misconduct which can lead to the striking off of a doctor/examiner

[MathiasOfAthens]

I'm pro choice. That said, she's consenting to having a scraping and vacuuming tool inserted and aggressively removing the fetus. I don't see how an ultrasound beforehand is such a big deal.

Shows how much you know. There is a type of abortion where all you have to take is a pill. This law now forces those woman to get an ultrasound before they take a pill to remove a pea size fetus. Brilliant.

[Garbarsardar]

How is it rape if you're going to get an abortion anyway?

Does anyone here know what an abortion entails?

Let's just say, scrape -n- vac.

An abortion entails consensus. Let me spell it for you: C-O-N-S-E-N-S-U-S.

I don't think this bill deserves the outrage it is recieving. I don't think it matters either way. Ultrasound imaging certainly cannot cause trauma for anyone. What can cause trauma is having an abortion.

I am pro choice but I also acknowledge the magnitute of what abortion is. So does anyone who finds it traumatic, or else they wouldn't mind. It's important to keep it as limited as possible.

Well, I'm not specialized in trauma, but raising an unwanted child because you were short of options can cause trauma as well, both to you and the child. You mean psychological trauma I presume, since medically an abortion is no more complicated than an appendectomy.

The whole point that seems to elude a number of posters is that Transvaginal Ultrasound is an unnecessary process which is forced upon the patient without requiring her consensus.

[Davius]

An abortion entails consensus. Let me spell it for you: C-O-N-S-E-N-S-U-S.



Well, I'm not specialized in trauma, but raising an unwanted child because you were short of options can cause trauma as well, both to you and the child. You mean psychological trauma I presume, since medically an abortion is no more complicated than an appendectomy.

The whole point that seems to elude a number of posters is that Transvaginal Ultrasound is an unnecessary process which is forced upon the patient without requiring her consensus.

Um, the word you're looking for is CONSENT. C-O-N-S-E-N-T.

Women aren't forced to do abortions. So the are not being forced to do ultrasound.

They can also just travel to a nearby state and get it done.

In fact, here in New York, a very liberal state, women must submit to an external ultrasound and I believe hear a speech by the technician before they get their voluntary abortion.

Forcing a medical apparatus in a woman's vagina as part of a mandatory and unnecessary procedure is an insult to women.

Pap smears are CONSENSUAL. Pap smears can lead to early diagnoses of cancer. Transvaginal Ultrasound is not CONSENSUAL and can only lead to inserting a medical apparatus in a woman's vagina as part of a mandatory and unnecessary procedure.

No one is forcing anyone. You don't have to get an abortion. Why can't you grasp this?

Transvaginal Ultrasound is CONSENSUAL. You want an abortion, you CONSENT to this first. You don't consent, you leave your pants on and walk out. Nobody is being forced.

It IS a trick by antiabortionists to make abortion less palatable, like they are trying in Texas, but NOBODY is FORCED to do ANYTHING.

[Garbarsardar]

Um, the word you're looking for is CONSENT. C-O-N-S-E-N-T.

Women aren't forced to do abortions. So the are not being forced to do ultrasound.

They can also just travel to a nearby state and get it done.

In fact, here in New York, a very liberal state, women must submit to an external ultrasound and I believe hear a speech by the technician before they get their voluntary abortion.

Consensus is the agreement between interested parties. Meaning, the physician and the woman (probably her family too). The word you are looking for is dictionary.

On topic now, this is an exquisite logic. According to you an involuntary process forced as a pre-requisite for a voluntary process makes everything fine.

So if there is a law that says that if you want to have a tattoo (which is a voluntary process) you have to receive a swift kick in the groin (which is, I hope, an involuntary process), it's alright since no one is forcing you to have a tattoo anyway.

It does not matter that a kick in the groin has nothing to do with a tattoo. It does not matter that a kick in the groin is involuntary. As long as it is connected with the tattoo (for the only reason that someone decided so) it's fine, yes?

But really, folks...

[Rolling Thunder]

An abortion entails consensus. Let me spell it for you: C-O-N-S-E-N-S-U-S.

Consensus is the agreement of a group of individuals.
Consent is the agreement of one.

It is important not to confuse the two.

[Garbarsardar]

Consensus is the agreement of a group of individuals.
Consent is the agreement of one.

It is important not to confuse the two.

Yes it is important; The doctor, the patient and the patient's family (if the patient is underage). That's a group, no?

Except in the case where the patient is sectioned there is a requirement of consensus for medical acts between the doctor and the patient. The doctor has to conclude that an appendectomy poses less danger than the ensuing peritonitis, and the patient has to agree with (or consent to) that proposed medical act.

A bill, that makes mandatory a medical act (or a mandatory pre-requisite), apart from the inherent stupidity, is destined to give rise to suspicion that it is not written with the welfare of the recipients of the bill in mind, but is bound to ideological motivation.

[justicar5]

How is it rape if you're going to get an abortion anyway?

Does anyone here know what an abortion entails?

Let's just say, scrape -n- vac.

Erm that's wrong. Or at least only partially correct, there are other methods. (Drugs mostly)

No one is forcing anyone. You don't have to get an abortion. Why can't you grasp this?

Transvaginal Ultrasound is CONSENSUAL. You want an abortion, you CONSENT to this first. You don't consent, you leave your pants on and walk out. Nobody is being forced.

It IS a trick by antiabortionists to make abortion less palatable, like they are trying in Texas, but NOBODY is FORCED to do ANYTHING.

'Give me all your money if you want to keep breathing' is fine by you, as you CONSENT to keep breathing, what ever goes before must be fine.

[IronBrig4]

I thought conservatives were supposed to be all about "job creation." How does this help?

[Adar]

I thought conservatives were supposed to be all about "job creation." How does this help?

They can probably hire former airport security guards to do the procedure...

[Modestus]

Funny place America.

What is the idea behind this law, it appears to me that its some strange conservative belief that if the women sees the foetus she wont have the abortion or at the very least to make abortions more difficult for women then they already are.

Not sure how the law works in America but this would appear to require and then enforce a medical procedure that has nothing to do with another medical procedure (the abortion), the only and rather tenuous link being in the warped morality of a Conservative mind.

[Heinz Guderian]

Did someone brief the conservatives on what a "vagina" is?

[MathiasOfAthens]

Funny thing is one of the bills supporters opposes TSA pat downs at airports as unlawful intrusive procedures.

[Claudius Gothicus]

This is one of those threads where a feminine opinion is highly needed.

It's also amazing how easily can American Conservatives roll people's rights back.