Tips on attacking city with a full stack in it

**Leutnant** · February 21, 2012, 04:48 PM

Hey guys, I'm playing as Venice and it's high time that those Milanese started sleeping with the fishes

However, I'm running into a problem... they have amassed a full stack army in one of their two remaining cities. I would rather meet them on the field and crush them with my cavalry but alas, like the cowards they are... they have decided to "hole up." How can I take that city without loosing a significant portion of my army?

**GoodstuffTW** · February 21, 2012, 04:56 PM

you could either blockade the port that its at (if it has one) or put stacks in there territory to lower there income until they have to come out and get yopu

**Sweger** · February 21, 2012, 05:02 PM

Or just besiege it until it starves out. You could (if you have the resources to) siege with several full stack armies.

**Avatar** · February 21, 2012, 05:12 PM

Any time you want to face a defending army in the field rather than during a siege, simply wait out the siege duration. That results in the defenders charging out of the front gate en masse and being a much simpler proposition for you to take out.

**Surgeon** · February 21, 2012, 05:32 PM

What is their stack made up of? Snoop around with a spy to see what sort of troops and how many they have. If it's a garrison of 7 peasant/militia troops and a bunch of half-dead DFK and cavalry then they should be easily overwhelmed by a more professional army.

Personally I'd suggest taking the city by storm because then your units get to earn exp, but that's just me

**Sweger** · February 21, 2012, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Surgeon

What is their stack made up of? Snoop around with a spy to see what sort of troops and how many they have. If it's a garrison of 7 peasant/militia troops and a bunch of half-dead DFK and cavalry then they should be easily overwhelmed by a more professional army.

Personally I'd suggest taking the city by storm because then your units get to earn exp, but that's just me

Since we're talking about Milan, it's probably a

of crossbows...

**PrestigeX** · February 21, 2012, 11:14 PM

Most of the time when this happens, I just wait until they sally out -- BUT, the AI will usually send reinforcement army to attack you.

then you get a Field Battle, but the odds are something like 2 to 1 , or 1.5 to 1 etc.. Great battles , with some challenge to em =)

Another trick I use, is when I see small'ish / vulnerably armies near the large garrison settlements -- I attack them, they typically withdraw and that withdrawal sends them closer to the settlement. Attak again, and you'll fight the small army, plus the garrison forces -- Again, a great battle =)

When you MUST fight in siege, and the AI has a large garrison - I usually go with a large force up the middle, and two smaller forces on the sides (2-3 units in the small forces) ... Focus on capturing the town square / killing the general.

IF it is a Citadel, and it has a full garrison -- FORGET IT lol, unless you have brought some ridiculous army with you that is 100% elite, upgraded units.

**_Elysium_** · February 22, 2012, 07:54 AM

Put some spies in to give a 100% chance of opening the gates, use assassins to destroy the Ballista Towers if the city has them, then assault with one stack from multiple directions. Once you're on the battlefield, split the stack into three and assault three gateways at once. A couple of trebuchets could help aswell. Breaching a wall usually makes the AI change tactics. Sometimes they'll horde in the city centre, sometimes they'll focus everything at the breach. I'd use some (expendable) heavy cavalry aswell, for rolling barricades in the city streets.

I enjoy those kinds of sieges. You can catch the AI out and pincer loads of their units in a street. Once they rout, they're done for. I think I took Genoa from the Milanese using this method in my current H/VH campaign, as England.

You can also try making the city rebel. I did that with the Papal States in my campaign. They held Rome and Naples, and I held everything around. I filled their two cities with spies to cause unrest, then had swarms of assassins destroy all of the buildings, with a couple of assassins ready to "disappear" the Pope if things went wrong. Both cities turned rebel on the same turn, and the stacks I had nearby managed to take them both.

**beckyolt** · February 22, 2012, 07:57 AM

Siege the town until the defenders starve. M2TW sieges are unrealistically bloody ( having to kill every man of the garrinson to take the city wtf? ) and will always cost you many men. Especially if theres a stack defending it.

**Aeratus** · February 22, 2012, 11:27 AM

If you have siege weapons, it's pretty easy. Just knock down all the walls, and it just become a field battle. The AI is pretty bad at fighting in the streets. For example, you can snipe units in the city square with rocket launchers and the AI can't do anything about it.

**NobleNick** · February 22, 2012, 01:25 PM

Easiest way: Seige and wait it out. Fight as defenders against the sally battle. (Clean up the territory around the city first, or place reinforcements such that they intercept any AI help.)

A bit harder, but quicker: If AI reinforcements are smallish and next to the city, attack them. The city garrison will reinforce, and you can slaughter them all on the field.

Harder/Expensive, but quickest (and more fun): atta-a-a-ck! Spies can help open the gates, and/or siege weapons can be used. In any case: Ensure that fully half of your stack is good quality H.I.; bring at least 3 units of solid missile troops; and hit from at least 3 directions (even if attacking a fortress). For a city, I like to ram the gate -AND- assault the wall with ladders on each of three sides. The AI just goes nuts when you do this. Throw extra men at the weakest point and drive to the city square. Use archers, from multiple directions and protected by H.I., to slaughter the masses packed into the square. Then charge in and be done with it. For Fortresses, I use a few more archers (I like to take 5 or 6 units) and methodically rain death on the opponent, from the walls, once I break through to the inner sanctum.

I've always been able to take a fortress against any mix, when I come with my mix (typically 10+ H.I., 5+ missile, and the other 5 slots a mix of general, cav and siege artillery. BUT, if you can't, then just have a back up of 1/2 stack nearby to join in or to replace your losses and IMMEDIATELY hit the city/fortress again next turn.

**Aeratus** · February 22, 2012, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by NobleNick

A bit harder, but quicker: If AI reinforcements are smallish and next to the city, attack them. The city garrison will reinforce, and you can slaughter them all on the field.

I mainly rely on that when I have all-cavalry armies. It works well because all-cavalry armies can run down all routers, thus preventing the AI from retreating back to the city after losing the battle.

On higher difficulty levels, you can just put the all cavalry army on siege mode, then another AI stack will try to relieve the city, and you can also wipe out the city garrison on the field.

**Aymer de Valence** · February 22, 2012, 01:59 PM

Personally I love full stack siege battles. Very tough but very fun! My advice would be to starve them out. You can get from Venice to Milan or Genoa in 1 - 2 turns, so if the AI does send reinforcements, you can send reinforcements quickly, kind of like what NobleNick said. Good luck and i hope you destroy those green backstabbers!

**Willowran** · February 22, 2012, 02:09 PM

hell, if you don't want to lose men, starve them out. if they sally, or send reinforcements, retreat. if they chase you, slaughter them. if they don't, seige them again. use a general with "night attack" to take out the reinforcements. besiege 'till they sally, retreat. repeat until their army has shrunk enough that storming them will not lose you soldiers. it is a long approach, time consuming for certain, but it is also the easieest way to kill without being killed.

I've never been particularily good at an offensive seige where the odds aren't in my favour.

**Teutonic Warlord** · February 22, 2012, 03:17 PM

Plenty of people will tell you (and have) that you could always besiege them and starve them out until they come out. However, since you have a cavalry-heavy army, I suggest pulling some units from the army. The AI usually sallies out on the same turn if the besieging force is weaker, so reducing the number of units could cause them to come out, and your cavalry will tear them apart. It sure works for me.

**stratfiend** · February 23, 2012, 02:21 PM

So long as you have plenty of heavy infantry and some siege weapons to poke some holes, it isn't difficult to outsmart the AI. I normally split into two groups and attack at two different sides. One of them is bound to not be well defended, so once you've broken through you can rush to the town square. This puts the AI into panic mode and they start recalling troops from the other front to reinforce the center, allowing the other force to break through too. Once the pincer is in place it's game over for them.

Depending on the faction and how early it in the campaign it is, you might be lacking in shock troops and this makes sieges more difficult since militia spearmen aren't exactly good at attacking masses of infantry. In this case I normally just let the siege roll on for as long as possible. At some point they'll either sally out or reinforcements will show up and attack you (or you can attack them if they're adjacent to the target). Since the city's garrison supports the attacker, if you win the battle then the defenders are done for as well and you take the city without even having to siege. If reinforcements aren't coming and you can't afford to kill turns with a prolonged siege, a good trick is to pull a few units from your stack. If the AI thinks your stack is weaker than the garrison, they will sally out against you the next turn.

Of course the other option is multiple stacks. If you're on a roll it's ideal to send 2 stacks at a time. Both siege and auto-resolve for an easy win. Then pick out the troops you can retrain in your new city/castle to leave behind while the others reform a new stack and continue to the next target. By the time you've retrained the others they can catch up with the new stack. Rinse and repeat without having a bunch of long drawn-out siege battles.