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  1. #1

    Default Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    I think this has turned into a Iraq vs US version of events very quickly, and for us here it would be instinctive to reply by saying that the US is right, end of story... but why might the Iraqi government, whose one ally is the US feel compelled to contest their findings? I can't think of any benefit they might get out of it other than one more problem.


    Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    Iraq is carrying out its own investigation into Ishaqi

    The Iraqi government has rejected the findings of a US military investigation into the deaths of 11 civilians in the village of Ishaqi, north of Baghdad.
    A spokesman for Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki said the report, which cleared the US soldiers of wrongdoing, was unfair.

    The government will demand an apology and compensation, the spokesman said.

    The US said allegations the troops had deliberately killed a family and then covered it up were "absolutely false".

    A report filed by Iraqi police accused US troops of rounding up and deliberately shooting 11 people in the house in Ishaqi, including five children and four women, before blowing up the building.

    The US military report, issued on Friday evening, said four bodies including that of an insurgent were found after the raid in March and acknowledged there were up to nine "collateral deaths".

    However, it concluded the US soldiers had behaved correctly.

    The outcome of the Pentagon investigation emerged a day after the BBC released video footage that appears to show the aftermath of US action in Ishaqi, about 100km (60 miles) north of Baghdad.

    The video shows a number of dead adults and children at the site with what our world affairs editor John Simpson says were clearly gunshot wounds.

    Other inquiries

    Other incidents are being investigated by the Pentagon.

    One inquiry is looking into an alleged massacre at Haditha last November, in which 24 civilians were killed.

    A report in the New York Times newspaper says Marines commanders learned within two days that civilians in Haditha had died from gunfire, but saw no reason to investigate.

    It had initially been reported that the 24 civilians had died in a roadside bomb.

    The commanders told investigators they had not seen anything usual in the differing accounts of the incident, and that they had no information at the time to suggest any civilians had been killed deliberately, the newspaper reports.

    Mr Maliki has said he will ask the US for the investigative files into the incident.

    Another Pentagon investigation is looking at an incident in Hamandiya, where an Iraqi man is alleged to have been deliberately killed on 26 April - and that the circumstances were covered up.

    Seven Marines and a navy sailor are being held at a military base in California over the killing.

    One of their defence lawyers has said they are expected to be charged in relation to the incident, reports say.

  2. #2
    Logue's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    This is getting worse and worse with no sign of a end to it, and the thing that anoys me is that there are idiots in control of it all.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    Why couldnt this be posted in the other thread about this? Regardless as I said previously in other posts, the accusation is enough some people arent going to believe these guys are innocent no matter the facts of the case and the Iraqi goverment really has no choice in the matter since many Iraqis arent going to believe anything other then the soldiers are guilty. Alot of the same people who attack others for what they see as 'blindly' defending the military are in fact guilty of the exact opposite, blindly believing the soldiers MUST be guilty leaving us with an issue like this that is unsettled.If they support the US findings it makes them look like puppets and errodes their iffy credibility as it is.

  4. #4
    The Alcotroll's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    I'm sure there are people waiting eagerly in the wings to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of any evidence so far to suggest that US soldiers were responsible for this Ishaqi killing.
    As far as I'm aware, there are a number of civilian corpses, and the most learned Forensic Pathologist John Simpson [/SARCASM] was able to declare on national TV his assessment that the departed indeed bore gunshot wounds.
    Is there anything to say that this isn't just another sectaran killing in a country where such violence is a daily occurrence?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    "Is there anything to say that this isn't just another sectaran killing in a country where such violence is a daily occurrence?"

    the iraqi police, apparently. and the video whcih shows people with gunshot wounds.
    also, i placed this in a separate thread because i was more interested in the question of why the Iraqi gov would want to contest and challenge the findings of the US military when they are both working towards the same goals?

  6. #6
    The Alcotroll's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    Quote Originally Posted by akanoez
    the iraqi police, apparently. and the video whcih shows people with gunshot wounds.
    So we'll trust to the claims of a police force known to be corrupted and infiltrated by sectarian militias serving the personal adjendas of their political masters, and to the fact that these people were killed by gunfire, which Iraqi insurgents would never use (being more partial to car bombs these days).

    Just playing Devil's Advocate like.

    I wasn't aware there was a spy drone involved in all of this. Is there a source on that?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    Quote Originally Posted by The Alcotroll
    I wasn't aware there was a spy drone involved in all of this. Is there a source on that?
    I'm looking for it. I know I heard this on either NBC or CBS yesterday, and I found it in a story online yesterday too after I originally mentioned it in the other thread, should have linked it. Unfortnately I didn't bookmark it and it seems to have been replaced by the "Iraqi reaction" headlines. It stuck out because "Predator drone" was specifically mentioned. Other comments refer to a gunship instead. It would have been possible for both to have been in operation but either/or seems more likely. The confidence and quickness with which the military declared this matter resolved suggests they have something to back their claim. I'm trying to find any full briefing/report by the U.S military on the matter.

    Like I've said, I want to hear more. There are at least three contradictory sets of mutually contradictory reports: Iraqi, U.S. military, and BBC. None of them mesh.
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    Offer up your freedom and your will,
    You can build your house on the shifting sand,
    As for me I'll fight where I stand.

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  8. #8
    Scar Face's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    I think this has turned into a Iraq vs US version of events very quickly, and for us here it would be instinctive to reply by saying that the US is right, end of story... but why might the Iraqi government, whose one ally is the US feel compelled to contest their findings? I can't think of any benefit they might get out of it other than one more problem.
    Since when is Iraq on good terms with the U.S.? Sure they set up the current government more or less, but theres too much friction to say they're on good terms. Its pretty much a fact that many U.S. solders are treating the Iraqi populace unjustly. The obvious reaction to being accused that your troops over seas are killing the Civilians of another country, is to deny it. If more evidence is brought forth, then to again fake the investigation to make you look better. I'm not saying thats what happened, I'm just saying thats the way the Iraq government is going to perceive it.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    The trouble for US is that all major Iraqi political factions simply do not want US occupation of Iraq or exploit it to increase their level of influence or autonomy. Shi'ite, whose faction is in control of Southern Iraq (southern Iraq is quite secure) complain that US is placing so-called "advisors" everywhere to control Iraq behind the curtain. Sunni muslims (former supporters of Saddam regime) have plenty of reasons to refuce US occupation. Kurdish want to use US occupation to achieve their autonomy (and hopefully independence) but does not actually want US in their court. US certainly did not expect such political games after the fall of Saddam.

    So far, Iraqi people resent US occupation and that is shown in Iraqi PM's statement. This is exactly the same tactic politicians used over and over in human history-find the scapegoat and blame him whether the accusation is true or not. In fact, this is the same method used by Bush- Saddam has WMD and supports terrorists etc etc.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    Shouldn't this be in the other thread on this very same subject?

    And akonoez must have missed the part about the Predator drone that supposedly taped the raid. This one's still anyone's guess. Somebody killed some civilians, but we don't really know who or how right now.

    There was supposedly a firefight. Predator drone footage could certainly confirm if that was true. If it stayed on station, it could also prove whether or not there were any U.S. forces entering the structure and firing as described. Some of what the BBC commentator said suggested that contrary to the Iraqi claims (bound and executed in a room), the bodies did not show a true close range end. It's not enough to draw a conclusion from, but certainly requires thorough investigation and reporting fo the evidence.
    You can hide your light behind the hill,
    Offer up your freedom and your will,
    You can build your house on the shifting sand,
    As for me I'll fight where I stand.

    Lyrics from "Fight Where I Stand", Needfire (Celtic Rock Band)

  11. #11

    Default Re: Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    http://bareknucklepolitics.com/?p=1406

    Any link from major news sources such as CNN, NBC, BBC or CBS?
    Last edited by leeho730; June 03, 2006 at 04:29 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    Quote Originally Posted by leeho730
    http://bareknucklepolitics.com/?p=1406

    Any link from major news sources such as CNN, NBC, BBC or CBS?
    Hmm, that's a problem because it is referring to Haditha, while the report I had seen earlier specifically referred to Ishaqi. I saw it first on the tube, then online.

    On the other hand, about half the news reports referring to the Iraqi reaction have the two events so hopelessly and erroneously intermixed that their reports have become unintelligible. Their editors must have their heads pretty far up their backsides.
    You can hide your light behind the hill,
    Offer up your freedom and your will,
    You can build your house on the shifting sand,
    As for me I'll fight where I stand.

    Lyrics from "Fight Where I Stand", Needfire (Celtic Rock Band)

  13. #13

    Default Re: Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    "Shouldn't this be in the other thread on this very same subject?"

    are you referring to the Haditha thread, cause this is a different town altogether...
    and thanks for the info and links.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    Quote Originally Posted by akanoez
    "Shouldn't this be in the other thread on this very same subject?"

    are you referring to the Haditha thread, cause this is a different town altogether...
    and thanks for the info and links.
    No...it would be the one farther down the page http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=52279

    You were a participant in the thread.
    You can hide your light behind the hill,
    Offer up your freedom and your will,
    You can build your house on the shifting sand,
    As for me I'll fight where I stand.

    Lyrics from "Fight Where I Stand", Needfire (Celtic Rock Band)

  15. #15

    Default Re: Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    aw #@$$* saw it... o well...

  16. #16

    Default Re: Iraqis reject US Ishaqi findings

    Quote Originally Posted by akanoez
    aw #@$$* saw it... o well...
    You had me wondering...

    If it is any consolation, some of the news reports are getting them far more confused than this. I think it will take the media the whole weekend just to get their reports sorted.
    You can hide your light behind the hill,
    Offer up your freedom and your will,
    You can build your house on the shifting sand,
    As for me I'll fight where I stand.

    Lyrics from "Fight Where I Stand", Needfire (Celtic Rock Band)

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