Reports of Koran Burning in Afghanistan lead to Protests

[Armenum]

Apparently it was Afghan workers from the base that leaked the news of the burning. This may become a nightmare for the ISAF and its already tense relations with the Afghans. I really am puzzled to understand the motives behind that decision.

It adds to the fact that the prolonged stay of Western troops in Afghanistan may just make things worse, as the window for such mistakes is increased. Not to mention this is a nightmare for Afghan Government officials aligned with the West. Good luck dealing with this - it's a PR nightmare.

Reports of foreign troops burning copies of the Koran has led to Afghan protests outside the main US military base in Bagram.

Around 2,000 angry people gathered in front of the complex as helicopters fired flares to try to break up the demonstration. With the crowd chanting anti-foreigner slogans, this incident could be bad for public relations.

ISAF General John Allen made assurance the allegations would be taken seriously: “I’ve ordered an investigation into the report I received during the night, and we are taking steps to ensure this doesn’t ever happen again. I assure you, I promise you, this was not intentional in any way,” Allen said.

A swift public statement could be necessary to stop the situation escalating.

Desecration of the islamic holy book has caused violence in Afghanistan before. Four Nepalese guards and three foreign UN workers were killed at the UN headquarters in the northern city of Mazar-e-Sharif last April. That time the anger was sparked by an American Christian fundamentalist preacher burning a copy of the Koran in Florida.

Source: Euronews



The Guardian

[Rolling Thunder]

*Sigh.*

This is what is known as "disinformation". It is a key element to all insurgency strategies, in that it allows you to inflame the population against the opposing force without needing to resort to tactics that risk the loss of valuable assets to the insurgency or risk alienating the populace. I find it unlikely that this is anything more than a rumour, and until there is substantiation beyond allegation and rumour, it should be treat as such.

[Armenum]

*Sigh.*

This is what is known as "disinformation". It is a key element to all insurgency strategies, in that it allows you to inflame the population against the opposing force without needing to resort to tactics that risk the loss of valuable assets to the insurgency or risk alienating the populace. I find it unlikely that this is anything more than a rumour, and until there is substantiation beyond allegation and rumour, it should be treat as such.

That could also be the case, but I guess we'll have to wait and see what this investigation yields. While I see fundamentalism Muslims doing many things, burning the Koran is one act I would be really surprised if such a fundamentalist committed.

[Rolling Thunder]

That could also be the case, but I guess we'll have to wait and see what this investigation yields. While I see fundamentalism Muslims doing many things, burning the Koran is one act I would be really surprised if such a fundamentalist committed.

Why would they have to burn the Qu'aran? All they have to do is convince enough people that "The Infidels did it."

[Armenum]

Why would they have to burn the Qu'aran? All they have to do is convince enough people that "The Infidels did it."

Well the circumstances are rather telling:

A military official says Muslim holy books that were burned in a pile of garbage at a U.S. military base in Afghanistan had been removed from a library at a nearby detention center because they contained extremist messages or inscriptions.

Zahed said five Afghans working at the pit told him that the religious books were in the garbage that two soldiers with the U.S.-led coalition transported to the pit in a truck late Monday night. When they realized the books were in the trash, the laborers quickly worked to recover them, he said.

[eizo]

stoning women to death not so bad...
burning a few pages of a rather mediocre gothic fantasy novel...very bad...

the quran

[Pontifex Maximus]

I wonder if these soldiers are Christians. I can't help but wonder if we ever know the full story in these cases. The soldiers are either just dumb, jeopardizing American lives by doing crap like this, or they are motivated by something else, and I probably bet it is their religion.

[Dr. Croccer]

I wonder if these soldiers are Christians. I can't help but wonder if we ever know the full story in these cases. The soldiers are either just dumb, jeopardizing American lives by doing crap like this, or they are motivated by something else, and I probably bet it is their religion.

Because Atheists can't be bigots, right?

[Pontifex Maximus]

Because Atheists can't be bigots, right?

Of course not. But considering that only 16% of the US population considers themselves 'religiously unaffiliated' (which, I might add, doesn't mean they are atheists) the chances are very high that the soldiers did belong to a faith group, and that faith group is christian, much higher than the chances of them not being affiliated. It would certainly fit the media's reluctance to report on anything that could throw christianity into a bad light when reporting on the middle east. Ever notice how people that are Muslims are always referred to as 'Muslims' but how Americans in these places are never referred to as 'Christian?' I merely question why the media is so quick to throw Muslims under the bus and paint them as fanatical idiots but we never hear any mention of christianity in the same light. I mean, come on, these people didn't burn korans because they were cold

[Dr. Croccer]

Of course not. But considering that only 16% of the US population considers themselves 'religiously unaffiliated' (which, I might add, doesn't mean they are atheists) the chances are very high that the soldiers did belong to a faith group, and that faith group is christian, much higher than the chances of them not being affiliated.

Of course, but that's very different from your initial claim, as you well know, which was that this was a specifically Christian thing.

It would certainly fit the media's reluctance to report on anything that could throw christianity into a bad light when reporting on the middle east.

Probably because there aren't that many? I mean, what negative Christian events have taken place in the Middle East lately that the media has neglected to report?

Ever notice how people that are Muslims are always referred to as 'Muslims' but how Americans in these places are never referred to as 'Christian?'

Mainly because the references to Muslims generally involve events in overwhelmingly Muslim countries, with clearly Muslim people, in events relating to Islam. Calling the Taliban 'Muslim extremists' is fairly accurate, as the entire fundament of their ideology and movement is based upon their fundamentalist interpretation of religion,

Obviously media bias and buzzwords play a role, but let's not pretend that these are even remotely comparable situations.

I merely question why the media is so quick to throw Muslims under the bus and paint them as fanatical idiots but we never hear any mention of christianity in the same light.

Largely because Christians don't do like this on such a scale, and because they're not the ones we're fighting against.

I mean, come on, these people didn't burn korans because they were cold

If they burned Korans it was probably because they hate Islam. And the ability to hate Islam isn't exclusive to Christians. I think you'll find that the majority of outspokenly anti-Islamic groups and individuals are quite areligious.

Of course, if you have any evidence that this is the work of some fundamentalist anti-Muslim Christian group in the American military, feel free to share it with is.

[mrmouth]

I merely question why the media is so quick to throw Muslims under the bus and paint them as fanatical idiots but we never hear any mention of christianity in the same light. I mean, come on, these people didn't burn korans because they were cold

Probably due to history. A long, long time ago, Christianity (no matter how flawed it remains) decided to take off the diapers and grow up a bit. Basically one large soul searching event. Islam never really went through that.

At best, it allows for honest discussion and new ideas.

Some would say that the first true reformation is underway right now, but it is pretty underwhelming as far as the effect it is having on the Muslim street:

A historic and potentially momentous event occurred on January 24, 2011 impacting the teachings and understanding of Islam.

To put that event in perspective, we have seen over the last few decades problems related to Islamism, including terrorism, suicide bombings, but also suppression of values of human rights in several Islamic societies.

Reforming the understanding of Islam has been suppressed for hundreds of years after the leading Sunni scholars stopped the process of Ijtihad or renewing the understanding of the religion. As a result, young Muslims did not have options to learn Islam except from anachronistic and old fashion interpretations and jurisprudence books.

On January 24, 2011, the first document advocating the renewing of Islamic teachings and understanding has been published in Al-Youm Al-Sabeii ("The 7th day"). According to the journal 25 leading Egyptian thinkers and Islamic scholars including scholars from Al-Azhar University contributed to the document. The importance of this event cannot be overestimated.

Here are the Journal's main points that are the subject of renewal.

1. New evaluation of the Hadith books and better selection for the Hadith of prophet Mohamed.
2. Changing some traditional teachings regarding the concept that Non-Muslims must pay Jizzia (humiliating tax) to Muslims.
3. Changing the traditional Islamic understandings in relation to dealing with women
4. New understanding for the concept of Jihad
5. Allowing Muslims to use Non-Sharia compliant banking systems.
6. Better preparation of the preachers and allowing independent thinkers who were not educated in Islamic institutes to contribute to Islamic teaching and reform.
7. Separation between the Mosque and the State
8. Accepting that women and Christians can lead Islamic countries
9. Modernizing Al-Azhar Islamic education
10. Creating better relation with Non-Muslims via the school and houses of worship.

It is fair and accurate to say that this step and approach - if applied correctly - can be considered the first significant change that ever happened in the history of Islam toward its desperately needed reformation.

The power of this step stems from the fact that it acknowledges the existence of a problem, addresses its root cause (s), and admits the need for a change in Islamic teaching and education. On the contrary to the appeasing approach that denies the existence of an ideological component for the phenomenon of violent Islam, the previously mentioned honest approach is the ONLY approach that will ultimately lead to a real and long term solution for the phenomenon of Islamic Radicalism.

[Pontifex Maximus]

Probably due to history. A long, long time ago, Christianity (no matter how flawed it remains) decided to take off the diapers and grow up a bit.

I disagree. There are still plenty of christian morons out there and I don't put this past them.

[The Gurkhan]

Some would say that the first true reformation is underway right now, but it is pretty underwhelming as far as the effect it is having on the Muslim street:

Pretty underwhelming?

You know most of the imams and/or other learned musulmen I'm familiar with either personally or by reputation wouldn't really take issue with most of those points. Especially when one considers that the origin of this manifesto has been helped along by members of what has been Islam's main centre of learning for centuries.

However there is one delightful part of the Dar ul Islam that will never seriously take up these points. Until it's decades long and utterly regressive financial grip on scholarship (as well as proselytization) in the Muslim world is eroded, this 'enlightenment' will be met with stiff resistance.

[Phier]

Because Atheists can't be bigots, right?

I'm burning a Koran right now

It adds to the fact that the prolonged stay of Western troops in Afghanistan may just make things worse, as the window for such mistakes is increased. Not to mention this is a nightmare for Afghan Government officials aligned with the West. Good luck dealing with this - it's a PR nightmare.

No it really doesn't. It adds to the fact that some people are easy to fool.

[s.rwitt]

The hilarious part is how quick Afghans are to believe ridiculous rumors, I heard everything from an effort we were making to turn Afghanistan into the FOURTEENTH province of the USA to one about us putting chemicals in the sealed bottles of water we handed out because why not? That's the funny part.

The sad part is when people here do the same thing. Even if this does turn out to be true, and I'll be sincerely surprised if it does, at least a little bit of critical thinking maybe?

[Lawrence of Arabia]

The hilarious part is how quick Afghans are to believe ridiculous rumors, I heard everything from an effort we were making to turn Afghanistan into the FOURTEENTH province of the USA to one about us putting chemicals in the sealed bottles of water we handed out because why not? That's the funny part.

The sad part is when people here do the same thing. Even if this does turn out to be true, and I'll be sincerely surprised if it does, at least a little bit of critical thinking maybe?

Some of the locals believed that the dark ballistic eye-protection we wore could see through clothes.

Once we went into an area that hadn't seen foreigners since the Russians and they though our entire patrol was made up of ROBOTS because of how they scanned (turning as they walked on an OP, for instance)

The point is that a lot of the local nationals (what Afghans are referred as when you're deployed) can have absolutely no idea what they see.

Did it happen? Possibly, who knows. There could be all sorts of reasons for the Afghans saying people were burning the Koran.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

What are they doing with these books anyhow.Toilet paper i suppose.

[Armenum]

There's also the more realistic possibility that such Korans weren't deliberately violated, rather just improperly disposed off. Though explanation would have to be given why they were in a burned state.

[Nevins]

There's also the more realistic possibility that such Korans weren't deliberately violated, rather just improperly disposed off. Though explanation would have to be given why they were in a burned state.

Because burning waste is the primary disposal method in Afghanistan?

[Sadreddine]

Because burning waste is the primary disposal method in Afghanistan?

So the Qur'an is waste to be burned?

Winning hearts and minds like that, just like your sig, huh? And who's that child anyway, the son of some US-appointed governor?