Why is evolution controversial only in the US?

[IronBrig4]

I'm putting this in the Political Academy because it's been so politicized by right-wingers.

If you look at the rest of the industrialized world, teaching evolution isn't even an issue. It's widely accepted in schools and universities. If creationism is taught at all, it's only in religious studies or philosophy classes, where it's actually relevant. Yet there's a backlash against evolution in the US. It's not uncommon for outraged religious parents to scream at a teacher who teaches evolution in their science class. When a federal judge struck down a creationist attempt to equate evolution with creationism, conservative pundits called him a fascist and there were even threats against his life. Just look at the GOP candidates right now and nearly all of them are defending creationism in order to curry favor with evangelical Republicans.

And when you consider the people who are always pushing for creationism or "Intelligent Design," they're often white, evangelical Christian conservatives from the Bible Belt. Those states are generally the poorest and least educated states in the Union. In fact, they tend to rank at the bottom in nearly every social category. As an aside, do you think that the concentration of creationists in that region is a symptom or a cause of their states' marked failings?

[Burnum]

The USA is far more Religious then the rest of the western world, there is also a strong anti-intellectual feeling in the USA. The Republic candidates are a great example of this.

[Ima Farmathar]

well i think they are rigth in teaching it in schools, let me explain,

no im not religious, i was even antichristian in my teens, and demon worshiper before that, now im an atheist.

the thing is that most first grade college students in science and engineering don't have a clue about what science is, teaching creationism and analyzing why it is not science, would solve the problem giving our scientists a head start.

on the argument as to why creationism and not Norse moths(yes moths as in the insect) and similar crap, well due to our culture and tradition, analyzing creationism uses up more critical thinking.

[conon394]

And when you consider the people who are always pushing for creationism or "Intelligent Design," they're often white, evangelical Christian conservatives from the Bible Belt. Those states are generally the poorest and least educated states in the Union. In fact, they tend to rank at the bottom in nearly every social category. As an aside, do you think that the concentration of creationists in that region is a symptom or a cause of their states' marked failings?

Perhaps its because so many US Christians religion is fairly personal - local churches not attached very directly to a greater entity with lots of focus on self directed or small group Bible study and discussion. In that setting the view of the church leadership can be pivotal - 'we use this translation' and not likely a lot of comparative discussion or the history any part of the Bible.

But more importantly I think it is probably just the fact that US schools tend to be vary local entities - they depend on all kinds of local input local school boards, local taxes, PTO etc so its not surprising that on any number of issues a vocal and organized local interest can counter top down guidelines.

[General Brittanicus]

If you look at the rest of the industrialized world, teaching evolution isn't even an issue. It's widely accepted in schools and universities. If creationism is taught at all, it's only in religious studies or philosophy classes, where it's actually relevant. Yet there's a backlash against evolution in the US. It's not uncommon for outraged religious parents to scream at a teacher who teaches evolution in their science class. When a federal judge struck down a creationist attempt to equate evolution with creationism, conservative pundits called him a fascist and there were even threats against his life. Just look at the GOP candidates right now and nearly all of them are defending creationism in order to curry favor with evangelical Republicans.

Maybe Europe has just had a longer period of time to out grow out of such superstitions - i'm sure a few hundred years ago we may have believed the same kind of thing as fact, so perhaps in a few hundred years the US will be the same. It may also have to do with the fact that we sent a lot of our crazy religous people over to settle the US, so perhaps they had some influence on the way things work over there.

[The Gurkhan]

Maybe Europe has just had a longer period of time to out grow out of such superstitions - i'm sure a few hundred years ago we may have believed the same kind of thing as fact, so perhaps in a few hundred years the US will be the same. It may also have to do with the fact that we sent a lot of our crazy religous people over to settle the US, so perhaps they had some influence on the way things work over there.

God's honest truth here. +rep

[conon394]

Maybe Europe has just had a longer period of time to out grow out of such superstitions - i'm sure a few hundred years ago we may have believed the same kind of thing as fact, so perhaps in a few hundred years the US will be the same. It may also have to do with the fact that we sent a lot of our crazy religous people over to settle the US, so perhaps they had some influence on the way things work over there.

Pompous much? What all those fun people in Europe with there ideals about race in 40s or Yugoslavia in the 90s?

[Rolling Thunder]

Pompous much? What all those fun people in Europe with there ideals about race in 40s or Yugoslavia in the 90s?

Sssh, he's dreaming, don't wake him up.

[Holger Danske]

Pompous much? What all those fun people in Europe with there ideals about race in 40s or Yugoslavia in the 90s?

Don't even try that card. The racial ideals where just as alive and influencial in the American society during the 30-40s as it was in Nazi Germany. The leadership, and the fact the US had not lost a major war set the two apart.

[Vizsla]

I think it’s because of all those protestant off-shoots you guys have so many of.
If you’d have stayed part of the British Empire you’d all be Anglican by now. (Not saying you should have. I’m sure you’re all a lot better off without us.) Anglicans are mostly well meaning Liberals. The kind of people who are too nice to take their own side in an argument. Even the more hirsute bishops are the cuddly academic type rather than the scary shiny eyed type.
Definitely not creationist material.

[Himster]

. The kind of people who are too nice to take their own side in an argument. Even the more hirsute bishops are the cuddly academic type rather than the scary shiny eyed type.
Definitely not creationist material.

"The nuclear Holocaust wuld have no terrors for us, it would be no more than the whole-sale ushering of our species to a better future, to which it is in anycase destined to go." That was not said by Osama Bin Laden, or Fred Phelps, or the guy who murdered all those kids in Norway, it was said by the Archbishop of Canterbury. You are correct in that the anglican intellect is rather immune to the insipid gurglings of their creationist equivelants, but you are wrong to say they lack horrifying principles or desires.

[Vizsla]

What this guy?



There’s a serious dearth of fire and brimstone here. He looks like an angry sheep.
Take his views on creationism:

"I think creationism is, in a sense, a kind of category mistake, as if the Bible were a theory like other theories... so if creationism is presented as a stark alternative theory alongside other theories, I think there's – there's just been a jar of categories, it's not what it's about." When the interviewer said "So it shouldn't be taught?" he responded "I don't think it should, actually. No, no. And that's different from saying–different from discussing, teaching about what creation means. For that matter, it's not even the same as saying that Darwinism is–is the only thing that ought to be taught. My worry is creationism can end up reducing the doctrine of creation rather than enhancing it."

Is there an actual opinion in there somewhere? Anywhere?

[Himster]

American historical/cultural identity is relatively sparse (and made great by it's sparseness IMO), so it's understandable why they cling so stubbornly to certain aspects of their history that they think are vital to their identity.

[Nevins]

Different cultures place emphasis on different things. Evolution was grabbed as the hot button issue that could unite Christians in certain areas, and they have clung to that.

[conon394]

God's honest truth here. +rep

Nope just poor logic - how did Europe have more time to out grow such things? Did time stop in the US for a century or two or move slower - what?

The reality is schools are a local issue in the US more so than in Europe and thus in some places where certain views are strong the locals can influence schools vs the genearic standards that state or national paper-pushers might produce. Are you really going to tell me there are no apparently irrational issues in Europe how about the how argument over the name Macedonia etc or how about that little bit of issue in Northern Ireland no religion there huh guess somebody forgot to tell the Irish they had centuries to grow out of that...

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Northern Ireland no religion there huh guess somebody forgot to tell the Irish they had centuries to grow out of that...

Northern Ireland was a political and not a religious conflict. It was over the future of Northern Ireland as a part of the UK or as a part of Ireland. Religion was just part of the opposing groups' cultural identity. I actually think the opposing histories of nationalists and unionists stretching back centuries to the Ulster plantations are more important aspects of the culture behind the conflict there than religion.

Although, there are a lot of creationists in Northern Ireland. Several members of the Northern Ireland Executive are creationists. These are almost exclusively protestants.

Also, it seems to me that the small towns in the US are far more "rural" than those of Europe. As a result, strong Christian towns, well, remain strong Christian towns.

I'd believe it. I'm from a outside a small rural town (ca. 2,500) in the west of Ireland and it's not "rural" in the sense you mean here.

[Haxbo]

Nope just poor logic - how did Europe have more time to out grow such things? Did time stop in the US for a century or two or move slower - what?

The reality is schools are a local issue in the US more so than in Europe and thus in some places where certain views are strong the locals can influence schools vs the genearic standards that state or national paper-pushers might produce. Are you really going to tell me there are no apparently irrational issues in Europe how about the how argument over the name Macedonia etc or how about that little bit of issue in Northern Ireland no religion there huh guess somebody forgot to tell the Irish they had centuries to grow out of that...

It's actually pretty simple. The "working-class revolution" socialist revolution of the 1890-1910's had a bigger impact in Europe compared to America. Most of these "left-wingers" were very very critical of religion.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Because the United States tends to experience these ''Faith Revivals'', usually after a prolonged time of social and scientific progress, and then the ''radicalized Christians'' get even more radical. It's also important to notice that geographical differentiation in the US is important as well, the South is far more likely to suffer these ''science vs. religion'' wars unlike the north or the west where, in general, the issue is tacitly resolved(everyone stay in your own business, biology stays in universities and religion in churches).

[CiviC]

Why is evolution controversial in US? Maybe because evolution never reached some corners of US.

[General Brittanicus]

Pompous much? What all those fun people in Europe with there ideals about race in 40s or Yugoslavia in the 90s?

If you really want to take my post entirely seriously, so be it. The only thing i understand here is the first two words and i don't think what i said is particularly pompous. I am not aware of any European country that believes in creationism as much as the US does, but i'm not expert on every european nation- feel free to prove me wrong.

Nope just poor logic - how did Europe have more time to out grow such things? Did time stop in the US for a century or two or move slower - what?

The reality is schools are a local issue in the US more so than in Europe and thus in some places where certain views are strong the locals can influence schools vs the genearic standards that state or national paper-pushers might produce. Are you really going to tell me there are no apparently irrational issues in Europe how about the how argument over the name Macedonia etc or how about that little bit of issue in Northern Ireland no religion there huh guess somebody forgot to tell the Irish they had centuries to grow out of that...

Nope you just can't read what i posted. The thread is concerning creationism hence that is why i posted about creationism - I didn't say we were perfect. Europe had more time to grow out of such things, because they've had a few hundred more years experience of christianity than the US has had and then we sent a good number of our crazy religionists to the US, which is why it will take there population more time to see the light. I like to think that the more experience countries have of these religions the weaker their hold becomes and as the number of non believers grows the more children and whatnot will be able to avoid being brainwashed at young ages, so hence fewer believers and fewer people who take everything the bible says literally.