Early or Late Era Campaign?

**zorphon** · February 18, 2012, 11:07 PM

Hey guys I'm new to SS and just getting back into M2TW.

What campaign is more popular.

Other than the time period, what are the main differences between them?

Do both have 'Crusades' and 'Jihads' and what-not?

**Jambat** · February 18, 2012, 11:13 PM

Early is more popular around here it seems, although I am a huge fan of Late myself. The main difference is the time-frame, and the units available to use in said time-frame. In Early you tend to use a lot of Militia and Local units, while Late pushes the fast-forward button 120 years and you see a lot more of the improved troop types like Feudal Knights and Crossbowmen. There are differences in starting areas for factions based on real world history (Early Roman/Byzantine lands are pretty massive, Late Roman lands are heavily divided and surrounded), and some different factions available to play as in the Late campaign (Teutonic Knights and Mongols, which weren't around at the start of the Early campaign.)

Both have the options to Crusade and Jihad.

**zorphon** · February 18, 2012, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by Jambat

Early is more popular around here it seems, although I am a huge fan of Late myself. The main difference is the time-frame, and the units available to use in said time-frame. In Early you tend to use a lot of Militia and Local units, while Late pushes the fast-forward button 120 years and you see a lot more of the improved troop types like Feudal Knights and Crossbowmen. There are differences in starting areas for factions based on real world history (Early Roman/Byzantine lands are pretty massive, Late Roman lands are heavily divided and surrounded), and some different factions available to play as in the Late campaign (Teutonic Knights and Mongols, which weren't around at the start of the Early campaign.)

Both have the options to Crusade and Jihad.

Sweet man thanks for the info. I noticed that with the militia on Kingdom of Norway for Early.

One thing I noticed though was that when I attacked Kingdom of Scotland, the Pope threatened to excommunicate me even though it said as Norway I should take Scotland... Don't really understand that one.

But anyway, what are some good factions you would suggest for a newbie to SS, and a longtime of being absent from playing M2TW? I don't like starting with a ton of cities because I feel overwhelmed.

**Jambat** · February 18, 2012, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by zorphon

Sweet man thanks for the info. I noticed that with the militia on Kingdom of Norway for Early.

One thing I noticed though was that when I attacked Kingdom of Scotland, the Pope threatened to excommunicate me even though it said as Norway I should take Scotland... Don't really understand that one.

But anyway, what are some good factions you would suggest for a newbie to SS, and a longtime of being absent from playing M2TW? I don't like starting with a ton of cities because I feel overwhelmed.

You're a Christian faction attacking another Christian faction, the Pope does not approve. Heh. You basically have two choices when it comes down to something like that: Say screw it, and go after them anyway, or jump on them the moment they get in trouble with the Pope. If you do get excommunicated by the pope you can either buy your way into his good graces, or wait until your leader dies...the new leader will be brought back into the fold automatically.

England would probably be the best starter faction as you are pretty safe on your island kingdom. You can ignore the Pope, wipe out the Scottish, and then build up and raid from your homebase. Norway is pretty much the same way as once you take out Denmark (and vice versa), you only have to truly worry about attacks coming at you from one direction.

**zorphon** · February 18, 2012, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Jambat

You're a Christian faction attacking another Christian faction, the Pope does not approve. Heh. You basically have two choices when it comes down to something like that: Say screw it, and go after them anyway, or jump on them the moment they get in trouble with the Pope. If you do get excommunicated by the pope you can either buy your way into his good graces, or wait until your leader dies...the new leader will be brought back into the fold automatically.

England would probably be the best starter faction as you are pretty safe on your island kingdom. You can ignore the Pope, wipe out the Scottish, and then build up and raid from your homebase. Norway is pretty much the same way as once you take out Denmark (and vice versa), you only have to truly worry about attacks coming at you from one direction.

But at the same time you aren't with the Pope as England and you'll miss out on things like Crusades, which I find kind of cool. Who knows

**Ichon** · February 18, 2012, 11:18 PM

Early era seems more popular. The main difference is most factions start a tiny bit smaller and with hardly any buildings which means you have to spend 50 turns fighting peasant/spear militia armies and developing your towns. It is an easier campaign as your generals dominate easily but offers more control how your Empire develops.

Late era starts just as Mongols invade so if you play an eastern faction expect contact with invasion armies within 50 turns. Factions are a bit larger and more developed and you have access to more varied units right away. There is still more than 100 turns before gunpowder or late era plate armor is available but the campaign is a bit more difficult as you will encounter more diverse armies that generals have more trouble defeating on their own, you'll actually need to fight more full scale battles and you have a bit less control how your faction expands but for most factions if you start with 5 regions in early era, in late era you start with 6 or 7. Its not a huge difference but 30 factions with 1 or 2 additional regions means 30-40 less rebel regions out of the 60 or so region that start rebel in the early era. Byzantines/ERE are the only faction that starts alot weaker in late era due to the Latin Kingdoms which have taken control of Constantinople and Greece.

**zorphon** · February 18, 2012, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by Ichon

Early era seems more popular. The main difference is most factions start a tiny bit smaller and with hardly any buildings which means you have to spend 50 turns fighting peasant/spear militia armies and developing your towns. It is an easier campaign as your generals dominate easily but offers more control how your Empire develops.

Late era starts just as Mongols invade so if you play an eastern faction expect contact with invasion armies within 50 turns. Factions are a bit larger and more developed and you have access to more varied units right away. There is still more than 100 turns before gunpowder or late era plate armor is available but the campaign is a bit more difficult as you will encounter more diverse armies that generals have more trouble defeating on their own, you'll actually need to fight more full scale battles and you have a bit less control how your faction expands but for most factions if you start with 5 regions in early era, in late era you start with 6 or 7. Its not a huge difference but 30 factions with 1 or 2 additional regions means 30-40 less rebel regions out of the 60 or so region that start rebel in the early era. Byzantines/ERE are the only faction that starts alot weaker in late era due to the Latin Kingdoms which have taken control of Constantinople and Greece.

Interesting. It kind of sucks I'd rather have more variety of units right off the bat instead of just militia units, but at the same time I'd rather not fight full-stack elite armies right off the bat. For some reason, I like smaller scaled battles so it's not just a blob on blob zergfest, but that's just me.

Hmm I'll have to think about it, haha.

**Point Blank** · February 19, 2012, 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by Ichon

Early era seems more popular. The main difference is most factions start a tiny bit smaller and with hardly any buildings which means you have to spend 50 turns fighting peasant/spear militia armies and developing your towns. It is an easier campaign as your generals dominate easily but offers more control how your Empire develops.

Late era starts just as Mongols invade so if you play an eastern faction expect contact with invasion armies within 50 turns. Factions are a bit larger and more developed and you have access to more varied units right away. There is still more than 100 turns before gunpowder or late era plate armor is available but the campaign is a bit more difficult as you will encounter more diverse armies that generals have more trouble defeating on their own, you'll actually need to fight more full scale battles and you have a bit less control how your faction expands but for most factions if you start with 5 regions in early era, in late era you start with 6 or 7. Its not a huge difference but 30 factions with 1 or 2 additional regions means 30-40 less rebel regions out of the 60 or so region that start rebel in the early era. Byzantines/ERE are the only faction that starts alot weaker in late era due to the Latin Kingdoms which have taken control of Constantinople and Greece.

Hurry up and finish 1390

**Ichon** · February 19, 2012, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Point Blank

Hurry up and finish 1390

I know, I know... I've been procrastinating lately as Serbian Hussar finishes the map. I really do need to just take a day and finish the EDU with 1390 start, rebalancing, and the new trade resources but I had it almost ready to go when I had to restore from a backup.

Since then I just have not felt like redoing that and its alot of work to line up the new rosters with the current 6.4 setup just to demo it. I only want to have to do that once when Serbian Hussar has finished the map.

**Point Blank** · February 19, 2012, 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by Ichon

I know, I know... I've been procrastinating lately as Serbian Hussar finishes the map. I really do need to just take a day and finish the EDU with 1390 start, rebalancing, and the new trade resources but I had it almost ready to go when I had to restore from a backup.

Since then I just have not felt like redoing that and its alot of work to line up the new rosters with the current 6.4 setup just to demo it. I only want to have to do that once when Serbian Hussar has finished the map.

Excuses, excuses!

**Ferdiad** · February 19, 2012, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Ichon

I know, I know... I've been procrastinating lately as Serbian Hussar finishes the map. I really do need to just take a day and finish the EDU with 1390 start, rebalancing, and the new trade resources but I had it almost ready to go when I had to restore from a backup.

Since then I just have not felt like redoing that and its alot of work to line up the new rosters with the current 6.4 setup just to demo it. I only want to have to do that once when Serbian Hussar has finished the map.

Would some rep.....entice you to work faster?

**Fellinosse** · February 19, 2012, 03:44 PM

As a corollary to the OP, if I choose to start my campaign in the early era, will I eventually get into the late era units further down the road?

**Ferdiad** · February 19, 2012, 03:49 PM

Yes.

**zorphon** · February 19, 2012, 04:00 PM

Haha thanks all for the input. I ended up deciding to start with Early so I can shape my own empire and take out (more) Rebels without having to worry about wars with people (especially other Christians).

But again, thanks for the input guys. Think I'm going to try Sicily, but not sure.

I guess I should just ask: what's a relatively good faction for a new SS player/somebody getting back into M2TW after a long break? I was thinking Sicily, but the VC for Sicily unfortunately make you attack other Christians so it seems hard. Hmm.

**Jambat** · February 19, 2012, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by zorphon

I guess I should just ask: what's a relatively good faction for a new SS player/somebody getting back into M2TW after a long break? I was thinking Sicily, but the VC for Sicily unfortunately make you attack other Christians so it seems hard. Hmm.

The only downside with Sicily in Early is that the Roman Empire is going to come at you quickly, and it's not a pushover. I really do like Sicily in Early Era though because of the Norman units. Love them.

I already said England before, but perhaps you should look into one of the Iberian factions...Leon and Castille would probably be the best. You can ally with Portugal and Aragon so that your flanks and backside are protected, and then directly in front of you are the Moors. You can fight and expand against them with zero Papal issues, call crusades against them, etc... It really does sound like something you are looking for. Plus, the Jinete units they have are in my Top 5 favorite to control in the game. They are mounted assassin's, man. As a plus, whenever you take down the Moors you should have an easy path right into Egypt and the rest of the Holy Lands. More Muslims, more Crusades, less Pope tut-tutting you.

**zorphon** · February 19, 2012, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Jambat

The only downside with Sicily in Early is that the Roman Empire is going to come at you quickly, and it's not a pushover. I really do like Sicily in Early Era though because of the Norman units. Love them.

I already said England before, but perhaps you should look into one of the Iberian factions...Leon and Castille would probably be the best. You can ally with Portugal and Aragon so that your flanks and backside are protected, and then directly in front of you are the Moors. You can fight and expand against them with zero Papal issues, call crusades against them, etc... It really does sound like something you are looking for. Plus, the Jinete units they have are in my Top 5 favorite to control in the game. They are mounted assassin's, man. As a plus, whenever you take down the Moors you should have an easy path right into Egypt and the rest of the Holy Lands. More Muslims, more Crusades, less Pope tut-tutting you.

Great advice! Does indeed sound like something I'm interested in. One thing though is that I do like my cavalry a bit, I don't like to zerg the enemy with cavalry but I do like some decent cavalry in my army. Do any of the Iberian factions (particularly Leon and Castille) offer that?

**Ichon** · February 19, 2012, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by zorphon

Great advice! Does indeed sound like something I'm interested in. One thing though is that I do like my cavalry a bit, I don't like to zerg the enemy with cavalry but I do like some decent cavalry in my army. Do any of the Iberian factions (particularly Leon and Castille) offer that?

Yes but not right away. They have access to some Knight Orders and most Western European cavalry but in early era it takes some turns to get very many.

**zorphon** · February 20, 2012, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by Ichon

Yes but not right away. They have access to some Knight Orders and most Western European cavalry but in early era it takes some turns to get very many.

That's fine. I started a campaign with Leon and am only about 20 turns in, but I did manage to take like 2 Moor towns already.

One thing I noticed is the Javelin people run out of ammo super fast, unfortunately.