Tips for Gondor?

[Josh Knight]

I'm a long time player of TATW, and love the new update. I finally decided to play a VH/VH campaign as Gondor.

After multiple tries, I still haven't been able to make much progress. I always capture the settlement to the west of gondor on the cape, E. Osgiliath, Cair Andros, and the Drudan Forest.

After that, the game goes bad. I can't afford to garrison the river crossings, Cair Andros and the border with Harad well enough to defend them all. Boromir and Faramir usually die, and last game even Denethor died, resulting in a loss due to no family members left.

Have any of you found any good ways to at least last longer?

[Spits32]

There are many many threads on this if you do a search. But the quickest thing I can tell you is to lower the difficulty. I usually play my campaigns on M/VH.

[brapollo]

I used a strategy of trying to attack Mordor first enough to weaken them, as that's what worked in 2.1. That doesn't work in 3.1. You need to mass your bodyguards and attack Harad ASAP instead. Against Mordor, I'd hold at the walls of Minas Tirith until after you've dealt with Harad.

[cezarip]

I used a strategy of trying to attack Mordor first enough to weaken them, as that's what worked in 2.1. That doesn't work in 3.1. You need to mass your bodyguards and attack Harad ASAP instead. Against Mordor, I'd hold at the walls of Minas Tirith until after you've dealt with Harad.

Maybe you meant Osgiliath. If you let Mordor hold the river passing, they will get the upper hand.

[brapollo]

Because of its poor defenses as a custom settlement, Osgiliath is a death trap. Let Mordor die there again and again and again. If you hold at Minas Tirith, you only have to defend one settlement, not two. You can raid and destroy all the river settlements until you can beat down Harad with most of your bodyguards and then turn your full attention on Mordor.

[Hallow]

Because of its poor defenses as a custom settlement, Osgiliath is a death trap. Let Mordor die there again and again and again. If you hold at Minas Tirith, you only have to defend one settlement, not two. You can raid and destroy all the river settlements until you can beat down Harad with most of your bodyguards and then turn your full attention on Mordor.

Are you on crack? Both western and eastern Osgilliath is a defender's paradise. The chokepoints, the long approach to the gate, the bridges. You could not ask for a better place to defend.

[tonplan]

You could always sue for peace. Give Mordor Osgiliath and Harad Goben Tolfalas. This way you have time to recruit more powerful units and you get to assault a faction at a time of your choosing.
I find the worst part of this approach is always fearing invasion; it takes a lot out of you.

[Shingen]

Giving Osgiliath to Mordor is nice because they build all the buildings you want to have and cant afford.

[brapollo]

It's simple math-defend one settlement, not two. Less units needed. And the ai is terrible at defending Osgiliath. I should have said specifically that Osgiliath is a death trap for AI defenders.

[Son of Mars]

The key is Osgiliath, Cair Andros, and you can position ships in between the islands that harad uses for invasions to prevent raids but many see that as an exploit. Gondor has very good militia units, it was those men that fought my toughest battles. concentrate on containing Mordor first by taking Minas Morgul. Then sack Umbar. It rwally helps to kill the Witchking as well.

[brapollo]

My first time playing Gondor with 3.1, I concentrated on taking Minas Morgul asap. That is a mistake in 3.1. It unleashed a 0 upkeep spawn army that attacked me, made up mostly of uruks and trolls. I'd suggest avoiding Minas Morgul early on, especially as now, Harad is much more aggressive attacking you than it was in 2.1 and you'll need multiple stacks to defeat them. Without trolls, Mordor is not as dangerous as Harad and all their cavalry.

[Argeus the Paladin]

1) First thing first: There will be almost zero threat from the West. There's a "bandit faction leader" in the settlement west of your land with seven units, but you have absolutely no business there whatsoever. Meanwhile, Rohan can and will take care of itself well unless something goes terribly wrong. This leaves you with two theatres of war: The Southern front, against the Haradrim and the Eastern, against Mordor.

Disband all the units in the two westernmost regions on the first turn. Or alternately, send them all to the Lebannin basin - Linhir and Pelargir, namely. Also, Imrahir comes with an unit of respawning Knights of Dol Amroth. These knights with spiffy caps have no business in Dol Amroth whatsoever. Move them to either Linhir or West Osgiliath ASAP, though my recommendation is the former. The same goes for the Lossanach Axemen - move them to West Osgiliath as quickly as you can.

Minas Tirith is not a very good location for Godor's capital. Whatever sentimental value you have with the White City, throw it away and move the capital to Arnach whenever you have the spare money (or even if you don't). This should save you anywhere from 500 to 700 gold per turn of corruption from the get-go - more than any other investment can earn you.

2) Against Mordor: Mordor's early roster sucks. No, I'm not even kidding. Faramir, Boromir, any 30-year-old generals these youngsters might adopt and the starting stacks of Ithilien rangers, Lossanach axemen and Fountain Guards will form the core of your defenses in the East for years. In my opinion, Faramir is almost made for killing tons of orcs, while Boromir is mediocre.

Make it a priority to capture both E. Osgiliath and Cair Andros over anything else. Including missions. The reason is the river crossing, while an excellent defense point, cannot be reinforced if it comes under siege. Your reinforcement would get stuck on the other side of W. Osgiliath or on the bridge. That's why you need both E. Osgiliath and Cair Andros. With your starting stacks - Boromir, Faramir, the Fountain Guards and Ithilien Rangers - and hopefully you've got the Lossies there now - you can easily overpower E. Osgiliath's measly garrison and suffer next to no losses.

Whatever survivor you have of the battle, keep them in EO. Also within a couple seasons young nobles will be flocking to Faramir and Boromir like ants to honey, which means at least one free unit of bodyguards. That should be plenty enough to score heroic victories one after another against anything less than half a stack Mordor throws at you. Or, if you are like me and think that the old fool Denethor isn't fit to rule, kick him out of Minas Tirith to the frontline and send a younger, smarter and less bigoted general there. They almost always do better.

In the meantime, build up the army in Minas Tirith. Six units should be enough to take Cair Andros in any circumstances, since Mordor almost always gravely underestimate the strategic importance of this crossing. Once you've done that, the East is going to be secure for a few dozen turns, enough to build up force elsewhere. Which you need to, since your primary enemy is...

3) Against Harad: Yes, I'm not even kidding. Harad is your primary enemy and ironically the greater of the two evils.

- They have incredibly useful shielded spearmen, better than anything Gondor can afford for at least a decade or so.
- They have much, much better bodyguards and cavalry than what Gondor has, and better generals as well. I've seen Serpent Bodyguards tearing Gondor bodyguards apart like it's nobody's business. These guys will be the bane of your southern Militia/Archer armies right up until you can manufacture Gondor tin cans, and even then they'd be a tough nut to crack.
- And unlike Mordor, these guys can and will spam (half) stacks at you once every few turns starting from the 10-25 mark.

The Haradrims' primary target is Linhir. Even if you leave Pelargir almost undefended, they'll almost invariably go for Linhir first. This is one of the settlements that have critical role in maintaining a healthy Gondor economy and national security, so it has to hold at all costs. Unfortunately for you, the terrain is almost perfectly flat. Even with numerical superiority, the Haradrim cavalry can and will make mincemeat out of your militia really, really quickly. Even worse, the nearest settlement for emergency reinforcement is more than two turns away, meaning you probably won't get enough men there if a Haradrim half stack with three bodyguards suddenly pop up from nowhere. That's why the settlement has to be self-contained - I advise no less than ten units at any given time.

That is exactly where Imrahir comes in - the Swan Knights are, quite frankly speaking, wrecking balls that fare well against both bodyguards and lancers alike. Another general or two to help balancing out the serious Gondor cav deficiency won't hurt if you can afford one.

In any case, do not think about launching an expedition anywhere - too expensive, and loosens home defense where you cannot afford it - until you are comfortably racking in 5000-7000 of profit per turn. That's barely enough to maintain a full stack, since Gondor plates aren't cheap.

[brapollo]

I think the best way to handle Harad is not to turtle at Linhir, but to attack. Harad can pretty quickly muster multiple stacks to attack all directed at Linhir. When you attack, you can hit groups of soldiers before they can combine into larger armies. Smaller groups are much easier to kill while taking fewer casualties. With half a dozen regenerating generals and a steady supply of militia, you're better off attacking as soon as you can.

[Argeus the Paladin]

I disagree.

As someone's mentioned before in one of those threads, for the "good" factions the early game is all about building up power. Launching expeditions are highly risky (you don't have many to recruit in the first place, especially with Gondor and cannot afford losses), expensive (forfeiting free upkeep) and most of all, takes away your initiative.

To expound on that last point, a stronger faction fighting a weaker can afford multiple armies and can split themselves up to strike where the weaker cannot defend appropriately. In that case, the weaker faction has two options: Either holding a choke point, or concentrate their troops where the enemy is certain to attack. Either way, they cannot afford to divide themselves. Now back to the Southern Gondor front: There's no effective chokepoint since the Haradrim can island-hop to the plain around both Linhir and Pelargir, so the more logical option is to concentrate troops around a stronghold that I know the AI wants. Hence Linhir.

Of course, this strategy will only last until after mainland Gondor has been sufficiently ladened with gold-producing enterprises. After that the steamroll will begin

[ArmyCharger]

Of course you won't be able to organise expeditions right from the bat. First you need to get a reliable Anduinborder against Mordor, using your starting elite units and Boromir and Faramir to hold them off. Then you should focus on Harad. Gather a sizeable force at Linhir, defending it from Harads stacks, and launch punitive expeditions as quickly as possible (which may take a while). These expeditions (preferably by ship, but perhaps by land) should not be expensive but should actually bring in a lot of cash, as you'll be sacking large coastal cities. Also, attacking Harad gives you the initiative, as you force Harad to defend itself (you'd best ignore their armies and go for their cities, as you need to be fast and limit your losses). Their armies will try to catch up with you.

As you take out the source of their armies, the stack spam should stop.

[cezarip]

I have a very funny campaign with Gondor. After 2 heroic victories at Osgiliath (Boromir as main general and Faramir as governor) the Orcses are avoiding any engagement there. Instead they come the long way around and attack me in the south. I have 1 stack against 2 large Mordor and 1 Harad. Smells of defeat.

[Mhaedros]

You should be fine as long as you don't meet more than two of them at once

[cezarip]

This time, I seriously doubt it. My stack is half levies (have the Gondor Armour Upgrades submod) and only three cavalry units (FMs). Even if I loose only around 20-25% of the army in each battle, I can't face the Harad stack anymore. And I can't recruit reinforcements, Linhir is being upgraded to Town (will take time till I am able to recruit militias) and Pelargir can't recruit any other units.

[Ahlerich]

i wonder why people still want east osiligath. i used to take it in the old TATW but now with the new city design its not really an advantage defending it. or do you get a wall around it if the city is upgraded? i am not that far in yet and only am experienced with tatw 2.x

if the city design doesnt change i d rather defend west osilogath, at least there are chokepoints

[Hallow]

i wonder why people still want east osiligath. i used to take it in the old TATW but now with the new city design its not really an advantage defending it. or do you get a wall around it if the city is upgraded? i am not that far in yet and only am experienced with tatw 2.x

if the city design doesnt change i d rather defend west osilogath, at least there are chokepoints

If the bridges in east osgilliath arent chokepoints I dont know what is.