Gripen still optimal solution according to Swiss defense minister, despite French rumors and trolling

[Adar]

As some of you might know Switzerland decided to buy Gripen E/F in a contest between Gripen, Rafale and the Eurofighter (article). Eurofighter has not commented much upon the issue while Dassault responded very strongly (article) and has also been supporting some rather worrying leaks from the Swiss procurement agency.

The Francophone supported effort to discredit the Swiss procurement process was however refuted yesterday by Swiss government in a press release (available in German here) which state that the Gripen still is the optimal choice for Switzerland. A position quite easily understandable as the next generation Gripen offers an avionics suit comparable to Rafale in a much cheaper package and that it runs on an engine similar to that of the F/A-18s operated by the Swiss airforce.

Background
Armasuisse has been evaluating the three aircrafts between 2008 and 2011 to identify the best fighter aircraft from a Swiss perspective. The leaked papers consist of the 2008 versions of Rafale, Eurofighter and Gripen C/D and an alleged report from 2009 on future specifications. The fact that no Rafale supporter has leaked the 2010 and 2011 updates does however make the value of these reports rather questionable. It is however becoming a rather popular story in Francophone newspapers.

In both these reports Rafale was considered the most capable aircraft while Gripen was the most cost efficient. The 2009 report does however also show that there is far quicker progress is being made in updating the Gripen Demo and Eurofighter than in the Rafale. Which is understandable as the avionics package of Eurofighter has been severely delayed and Gripen Demo wasn't built until 2008 while Rafale could present a rather mature product.

Based on the facts available it is unsurprising that the incentive to leak reports from 2010 and 2011 has diminished as Gripen and the Eurofighter has matured as platforms. Throughout the testing the Swiss has been heavily penalizing capabilities promised but not yet fully flight tested (article in Swedish, use Google translate). This mean that Rafale has been scoring great points while features such as the Superior Selex Raven AESA radar (used on both Eurofighter and Gripen), the Eurofighter LITENING pod and Gripen Skyward G IRST sensor has been penalized until the 2010/2011 testings.

The whole campaign to discredit the Swiss government and SAAB Gripen reminds me a lot of the rather pathetic attempts of using IR images of the F-22 obtained in a friendly exercise to promote Rafale in Malaysia (thread here). And I seriously wonder for how long the West should pretend that France actually is our friend, because they are certainly not acting like one.

[Adar]

You can also read the 2008/2009 reports here and the 2008 section offer som interesting insight into the issues for the Eurofighter. Essentially it looks like cost cutting and delays made sensor integration poor and the lack of tested pods for ground attack (LITENING integrated during Libya campaign) and recon pods made them score badly in both ground attack and reconnaissance. The focus on a super cruising engine with high capability in the transonic region also hurts the aircraft as it reduces loitering time.

It is also worth noting that Dassault made a new "better" offer after loosing the competition and offered 18 aircrafts at a lower price, claiming that they could offer the same capability as the 22 Gripen aircrafts that Switzerland plans to buy (article).

Based on the extremely high flight availability of the Gripen this looks like a rather questionable claim.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

From the MMRCA thread
In Libya 19 Rafale flew 1900 sorties in the same time period as 5 Gripen flew 695 sorties. Which means 100 sorties per Rafale and 139 sorties per Gripen.

In flight hours Gripen looks even more superior with 2000 flight hours while Rafale delivered a total of 6000 flight hour. So the Gripens delivered roughly 27 % more flight time per aircraft than the Rafales.

If Libya is a good example of war like conditions, then it would mean that the 22 Gripen aircrafts could deliver deliver 155 %of the flight capability of 18 Rafale. Furthermore they would still be cheaper in maintenance costs and share engine with the F-18s already operated by the Swiss airforce.

[eisenkopf]

Any decision of the Swiss will not be based on the aircraft's capabilities anyway, because the decision is heavily influenced by domestic politics. The procurement itself and the procurement process are both highly controversial in Switzerland, with the secretary of defense in a difficult position. I would not trust a single letter of what Ueli Maurer says on this topic.

[Condottiere 40K]

The Swiss government is standing by its choice of the Gripen jet to replace its ageing fighter fleet, the defence ministry said on Tuesday, after reported military fears that the aircraft was not up to
the job.

Defence Minister Ueli Maurer reaffirmed his preference for the Swedish-made Gripen which he said at a conference in Bern was the best value for money.

"The plane meets technical demands, even if it isn't the most expensive aircraft on the market," said Maurer.

The Federal Council announced in November its decision to purchase 22 Gripen for an estimated 3.1 billion francs ($3.4 billion), reportedly the cheapest of three offers.

French planemaker Dassault's Rafale and the Eurofighter, produced by the EADS consortium, were the other bidders.

"The Gripen provides the best cost-performance," said Maurer, who came under pressure after excerpts of a critical Swiss air force report appeared in the press at the weekend.

The 2009 assessment, published in Le Matin Dimanche newspaper, said tests carried out the previous year had shown the Gripen's effectiveness "remains inadequate to achieve air supremacy in the face of future threats beyond 2015."

Maurer was on Tuesday backed up by Swiss air force commander, Lieutenant General Markus Gygax, who told the conference that Saab were offering a modernised model, with improved performance.

The decision to select the Gripen is to be sent to lawmakers for final approval later this year.

Dassault has reportedly made a counter-offer undercutting the current deal, prompting Saab to review its price.

Maurer said the government had asked the French company to submit "a concrete offer" which Bern would then assess.

[Adar]

It's nice to see that Lieutenant General Markus Gygax is also supporting Maurer as he was the one signing the 2008/2009 report.

I do however find the price speculations rather odd. The 3.1 billion franc figure has always been the ceiling of the procurement program and it is unlikely that Gripen would be pricing just below the maximum. My guess is that Dassault were arrogant enough to price themselves above the ceiling and now tries to sell a lower number of aircrafts at a price acceptable to the Swiss government.

[Condottiere 40K]

What does Maurer's boss have to say on this subject?

[eisenkopf]

What does Maurer's boss have to say on this subject?

He is the boss.

[Principe Alessandro]

Given the the needs of Switzerland I think that the Gripen is the optimal choice. All the rumors are just the result of the Dassault lobbying.

[Thorn777]

why should anyone care?

[Condottiere 40K]

The Swedes and the French obviously care.

[mrmouth]

What do they use these for?

[Kanaric]

Given the the needs of Switzerland I think that the Gripen is the optimal choice. All the rumors are just the result of the Dassault lobbying.

Given the needs if the Swiss I would say NO aircraft what so ever would be the best option.

[Condottiere 40K]

The Swiss? To present a plausible facade of self defence.

The French? To keep their aviation industry alive.

The Swedes? Who knows.

[Thorn777]

The Swiss? To present a plausible facade of self defence.

The French? To keep their aviation industry alive.

The Swedes? Who knows.

Is the French aviation industry in any particular problems?

[Holger Danske]

Is the French aviation industry in any particular problems?

Not so much as the Russian aviation industry, which is why they're gamling pretty much everything in the success of the PAK/FA.

[Mangerman]

The French? To keep their aviation industry alive.

I somehow have my doubts that the possible procurement of 18 Rafales by the Swiss is a matter of live or death for the French aviation industry.

[Thorn777]

^Rating agencies say France sucks, so it must be true what your suggesting.

[Treize]

@Adar

May I ask your permission to copy paste certain pieces of the OP to another forum?
I will refer to 'My Swedish source.' Or whatever you want.

---

Yea, the French employ very dirty tactics. Just like the Brits by the way, I just read they are whining that they deserve a second chance in India.

As for the Gripen. I fail too see the big advantages offered by the EF or the Rafale that are worth 3 to 5 times the costs per flighthour. For the same money if you pay attention to both the actual price of the aircraft and the costs throughout its lifespan (usually they use 30 years as an indication) you can operate 2 or 3 Gripens for every Rafale. With the difference becoming larger as the total budget increases.

[Adar]

@Adar

May I ask your permission to copy paste certain pieces of the OP to another forum?
I will refer to 'My Swedish source.' Or whatever you want.

Feel completely free to do so and call me whatever you want but please PM me a link to satisfy my curiosity .

One time I even had a tactica for Wood Elves translated to French without my prior knowledge .

why should anyone care?

I can think of roughly 24 billion reasons to care as the conversion ratio between krona and franc is 8:1.

[Darsh]

Feel completely free to do so and call me whatever you want but please PM me a link to satisfy my curiosity .

One time I even had a tactica for Wood Elves translated to French without my prior knowledge .




I can think of roughly 24 billion reasons to care as the conversion ratio between krona and franc is 8:1.

Except it not come from France but come from of the revelation of the rapport of the Commander Swiss Air Force General M Gygax who said that Rafale was the best fighter for the Swiss Air Force. Of course Dassault would be stupid to not propose another offer to sell Rafale.

You could find a copy of this rapport at this link:
http://www.scribd.com/Avtips/d/81390...and-the-Rafale

The reading of this rapport is really a torpedo for Gripen and Saab.