Dismounted Halbbrueder -shield or no shield?

[Blaze of Macedon]

So what up with these guys? In their stats it says no shield, yet when you take a look at their pic and and see them in battle you clearly see a shield

They wield a 2-handed halbred so i don't really get it

[Mhaedros]

In-game they have shields, and the halberd in only one hand

[Blaze of Macedon]

So does it count for something (against arrows for exmple)?

[tudor93]

if in their stats it says 0 shield then they have no defense against arrows, the shield is just for the looks

[Aeratus]

Right. The Shield is cosmetics only, and has no effect on combat.

In various mods, there are units with shields but 0 stats. This make sense when the shield is worn on the back, so it should have 0 stats.

[tudor93]

speaking of the shield worn on the back: in the description of the italian crossbowmen it says something like "the big shield on their back protects them from arrow fire while reloading" ; but this seems too complex for the M2TW engine, right ? I mean they have shield 0 in their stats and it's considered 0 even when they are reloading

[Aeratus]

speaking of the shield worn on the back: in the description of the italian crossbowmen it says something like "the big shield on their back protects them from arrow fire while reloading" ; but this seems too complex for the M2TW engine, right ? I mean they have shield 0 in their stats and it's considered 0 even when they are reloading

Actually Pavisse Crossbowmen have very high shield stats. Seems rightly so.

Shields are 50% effective from the side and 0% effective at the back.

So if a unit is wearing a shield on the back, and it has a non-zero shield stat, the shield is not actually protecting the back, but the front.

As for the pavisse crossbowmen, I believe (but am not sure) that the back-facing reload is purely graphical and that the game engine does not consider them to have turned around for the purposes of combat calculations.

[tudor93]

As for the pavisse crossbowmen, I believe (but am not sure) that the back-facing reload is purely graphical and that the game engine does not consider them to have turned around for the purposes of combat calculations.

ah, ok, this was the answer I was expecting, thank you aeratus and +rep

[Mhaedros]

It's just a description. It doesent give any protection at all AFAIK

[Blaze of Macedon]

Ok, thanks for clearing things up - so the shield is just for the looks - it has no effect on the actual combat.

Don't see much of a reason to train Dismounted Halbbrueder then. They may be the only AP inf the TO has, but i feel more than comfy with a stack of Order Spearmen and Sword Brothers or Dismounted Ritterbrueder (basically a combo of the previous two on steroids)...

[tudor93]

Don't see much of a reason to train Dismounted Halbbrueder then.

I was thinking the same way too when I was playing the Teutonic campaign ~1 year ago and I even made a thread and asked what are they good for (in comparison to the spearmen), I can't find that thread unfortunately but I know that some users told me they are useful against heavy armoured units or something like that (compared to the spearmen that are weak against sword infantry); I don't have time now, I'll be back in 2-3 hours and I'll search for the thread then and give you a clear answer

[Aeratus]

Also, while Halbbruders are fake shield units, they are also fake halberdiers. Unlike normal halberdiers, halbbruders have no spear wall ability. The halberd spear wall ability makes normal halberdiers very resistant to frontal cavalry attacks. Without this ability, Halbbruders are easily wiped out from the front by enemy knights.

Bottom line is that Halbbruders aren't a very powerful unit. They are easily outperformed by the much cheaper Zweihander and the Sarmogitian Axemen.

[Blaze of Macedon]

Also, while Halbbruders are fake shield units, they are also fake halberdiers. Unlike normal halberdiers, halbbruders have no spear wall ability. The halberd spear wall ability makes normal halberdiers very resistant to frontal cavalry attacks. Without this ability, Halbbruders are easily wiped out from the front by enemy knights.

Bottom line is that Halbbruders aren't a very powerful unit. They are easily outperformed by the much cheaper Zweihander and the Sarmogitian Axemen.

True. But if they had the spearwall the TO would have been grossly overpowered IMO. Getting the Order Spearmen at tier one makes them strong enough, when you get to combine those with Livonian Auxilaries, Dismounted Ritterbrueder, some Pikemen from a town, maybe some arty if you need it and some heavy cav then you get a seriously bad-ass stack.

The only thing cosntraining the East being steamrolled by the Order is the funds (or lack thereof early on) of the TO...

[Mhaedros]

The Halbrudder can be incredibly useful when used right

[Mhaedros]

I think they have the AP attribute, but it's a really long time ago I played the campaign. Oh, and I found your thread

[Aeratus]

They are armor piercing, but so are units like Zweihander and Sarmogitian Axemen.