Tips on Hayasdan campaign

[The Kybrothilian]

I've tried them a couple of times, but each time the Seleukids manage to put me into a battle for survival, where I'm unable to continue to build buildings for the reform or conquer the rest of the eleutheroi cities, because I have to keep retraining and recruiting to stop those Seleukid stacks marching at me.

Is there a definite order in which I should conquer the nearby cities, and in which order I should build the buildings required for the reform? Also, are stone walls in Armavir worth building at an early stage?

[TLG]

A good tip is always to use forts to blockade the mountain passes to slow the Selucid armys down allowing you a couple of extra turns to train units to defend your citys.

In terms of campaign strategy i'd suggest moving quickly to secure as many of the rebel towns as early as possible to help you build up a decent economy quickly as when the Selucids do come you'll need to train/retrain a lot of units

[athanaric]

Is there a definite order in which I should conquer the nearby cities, and in which order I should build the buildings required for the reform?

That would depend on the situation. Perhaps you should take Kotais first, for it has mines, a port and very cheap Skythian HAs. also, it is in a relatively secure position (watch out for Sarmatians though). Mtskheta should be next IMO. Same thing except for the port.
As for buildings, economy is most important. Farms and healers early on, and mines, ports, and paved roads as soon as you can afford them.

Also, are stone walls in Armavir worth building at an early stage?

If you're facing sieges there, definitely yes. Caucasian Archers and Eastern Slingers on a wall can really make a difference. Especially for providing cover fire for your sallying infantry and cavalry. And exploiting the retarded AI as it marches its troops parallel to your walls.

[GODSTATUS]

i recently played a campaign and its quite a joke. vh/m

to start off move all your starting north to kotais and siege it, they'll sally (if not reduce the amount i forget how much it should be) and put your units on the high ground and let the archers do work

do the same thing with the 2 towns to the east because they have the same garrison, then take the town north of that so that sauro doesnt take it

ask for ceasefire with sauro. as soon as you see seleucid diplomats at ur capital start making archers. you can beat any army by sallying every turn and using all your ammo then withdrawing and doing it again. however they shouldnt have attacked yet. take the town south of the two eastern towns and start fortifying your positions. if the seleucids are at war with parthia and saka and egypt then what you want to do here is start blitzing their towns and exterminating. destroy wonders and stuff, i believe ekbatana or whatever has a wonder able to be sold for 17k. with the money boost you can keep buying mercenaries

your plan is to split the seleucids in half. you take susa ekbatana and charax which puts a huge distance between the eastern side where they're already busy with parthia and maybe saka, then you start moving towards seleucia and babylon. theres tons of easy money there. if you're army is fine use the exterminate money to add mines to your starting cities. use scythian horse archers from your starting cities to be undefeatable

once you have babylon charax and seleucia take karkiotheka. seleucids will siege it a lot HOWEVER the battle map for this city rapes, the towns on a huge hill and the enemy spawns on a slope, sally and use archers. i added stone walls eventually and even if you put archers on the walls they can shoot the enemy from where they spawn

as you get near antioch if you border egypt they're gonna attack you so avoid that for as long as possible. i just went in anyway cause ha's rape face, rinse and repeat add client rulers then move towards alexandria

i stopped there cause i got bored

any faction with ha's is a joke. any faction with good archers is a joke

[athanaric]

take the town south of the two eastern towns and start fortifying your positions.

This one also has Persian units, which are very useful (Persian Hoplites, axemen, and archers with a very long range).

if the seleucids are at war with parthia and saka and egypt then what you want to do here is start blitzing their towns and exterminating.

Yup, I too like to raid Seleukeia and Babylon very early. It also cripples the Seleukid military machine for some time.

destroy wonders and stuff, i believe ekbatana or whatever has a wonder able to be sold for 17k.

That's awful. Why would an Armenian dynasty that tries to set up itself as rightful rulers of Persia and Media destroy a Median holy site?

once you have babylon charax and seleucia take karkiotheka.

Probably even before. Regardless, it's the best natural fortress I've found in this game. Also, mines.

[GODSTATUS]

That's awful. Why would an Armenian dynasty that tries to set up itself as rightful rulers of Persia and Media destroy a Median holy site?

uh because im not a nerd and that building is just a piece of data in a video game but it also happens to give me 17k

to the op theres a town north of the mountains and next to like a sea. im talking about that town

toggle fow. im just saying take kotais then take all the towns to the east until you hit the caspian sea or whatever that is, then take the town north of that then go south

[The Kybrothilian]

Thank you all. I started out the Hay campaign again, and managed to take Kotais and Mtskheta (though they actually don't start out with any ports or mines) and sent a new FM to set up slinger-garrisoned forts to block Seleucid movements. I hope I can secure Phraaspa and Ami-Kamah, before the Seleucids.

do the same thing with the 2 towns to the east because they have the same garrison, then take the town north of that so that sauro doesnt take it

I'm not sure what you mean with the 2 towns to east and 1 to north. since there's no eleutheroi towns to the north of Mtskheta and Kabalaka.

[Ferdiad]

Hayasdan is pretty poor right?

[Boriak]

I too have tried in vain to begin a Hai campaign, only to get slaughtered by Selecids in a matter of a few years. But now I've been successful in my Pahlava campaign and will try to do the same with my Hai attempt.

Going for Seleukeia and Babylon early, you say. How early? Should I wait for them to attack or go for a preemptive strike? I think it's better to be quick because the AI would rather get their old cities back than going for the new ones.

[mamik_yev_konak]

Entertaining thread with some interesting characters to boot. I like.

To the OP, you have so many ways you can approach Hayastan. If you're doing RP, you'll probably want to go for Ani, Karkatiokert, and Phraaspa. Of course in all practicality you probably don't want to get the latter two before you get Kotais, Mtskheta, and Kabalaka. Also if you're RP-ing, you'll leave the Black Sea Greek colonies to Pontos. At this point, what I've noticed is common among friends of mine who've played Hayastan is how, as mentioned in this thread, they tend to split the Seleukids in half through Mesopotamia. Whatever floats your boat.

At the person who first mentioned elephants, Hayastan may not have had them, but it sure fought against them. You'll find them a few thousand kilometers to the east.

Hayasdan is pretty poor right?

If you mean in EB, then yes. If you mean the land itself, then quite the opposite.

[Ferdiad]

The 17 is less useful than the long term bonuses Wonders provide.

[athanaric]

uh because im not a nerd and that building is just a piece of data in a video game but it also happens to give me 17k

If you can't be bothered with such mundane details, why're you playing this game at all?

The 17 is less useful than the long term bonuses Wonders provide.

Exactly, and if you implement the reforms, you'll get happiness penalties for a while, which means you can use any extra bonus you get. Plus it's a pretty building.

[GODSTATUS]

? im not allowed to play rtw if i dont care about wonders ya ok

seems ferdiad doesnt know what game theory is cause an instant 17k 20 turns into the game seems a lot better than 50k over 100 turns or whatever it is, cause in any campaign when it gets to the "late game" you should already be unkillable

[Entropy Judge]

? im not allowed to play rtw if i dont care about wonders ya ok

EB =/= RTW. More specifically, what athanaric was asking is "If you only care about the gameplay, why are you playing a history-centric mod?"

seems ferdiad doesnt know what game theory is cause an instant 17k 20 turns into the game seems a lot better than 50k over 100 turns or whatever it is

Well, in the first place ...

Game theory is a mathematical method for analyzing calculated circumstances, such as in games, where a person’s success is based upon the choices of others. More formally, it is "the study of mathematical models of conflict and cooperation between intelligent rational decision-makers."[1]

Just in case anyone doesn't know. (Rep for the first person to figure out why I bolded that part )

In the second, yes, 17K early on seems a lot better, but only if you can use it effectively. Depending on the bonuses offered by the wonder, leaving the wonder standing could have a much better effect than razing it for the cash immediately. Part of it depends on the circumstances in which you find yourself, part of it depends on the playstyle. If you rush for the wonder at the very beginning, for example, in order to sack the city and raze the wonder, but you don't have anything near enough strength to actually hold the settlement, razing it might be more effective. On the other hand, if you're a calculating builder and already have an established economy when you take the settlement, there's no need to raze it (particularly since the longer a game goes on, the more likely a human player is to have established a position from which the AI is extremely unlikely to be a serious threat).

how is a city thats like 2 feet away from your capital with a client ruler ever going to be red?

Perhaps the player wishes to install a Type I or II government there?

Oh, and this:

i'm not flaming anyone

Two of your statements could be taken to be insults, particularly with regards to the way you phrased them.

[Ferdiad]

The bonuses dont need to be monetary, happiness or growth is worth alot more.

[GODSTATUS]

to each his own, but hey, happiness in a city that gives it 150% po instead of 145% is a lot better than 17k early in the game where money matters most

anyway peace, gl op dont listen to these clowns

[The Kybrothilian]

Actually, I like RP-ing myself as well. I play EB purely for aesthetic reasons, if I wanted maximum gameplay, I'd play some mod oriented towards that, or just plain vanilla. Besides, that +5 happiness will matter, when the city loses public order. I'd rather have a city with 70% happiness, than having it under that, which means the city will began rioting (which costs money)

But now to my current situation in the campaign



I conquered Kotais and Mtskheta. Now I'm besieging Kabalaka (the town to the north, @GODSTATUS?), whihc after I'll go for Phraaspa (the town to the south, I assume) which after I'll go for Ani-Kamah and Trapezous in the west. However there is a new problem: Pontos has failed to keep order in their new acquisitions, and not only has Galatia joined Arverni, Sinope has also joined KH. This means that if I take Trapezous, I'll not only be in war with KH, I'll also have them at my doorstep. Couple this with Pontos wanting Trapezous too, and the ever closer creeping threat of AS invasion, (as well as the fact, that my conquered regions are pretty undeveloped) and the situation looks bleak.

[GODSTATUS]

how is a city thats like 2 feet away from your capital with a client ruler ever going to be red? mine was at like 160% on vh taxes the entire game

anyway, do not ever take trapezous or ani kamah. you dont want to border pontus or open another front to anyone and like i said your goal is to split the seleucids in half



the green [------]'s represent the huge distance from the eastern side of seleucia once you split them in half. they will pay no attention to you as they'll be fighting parthia. with stone walls and a few archers that will make your eastern border completely safe, allowing to you turn southwest from ekbatana and susa to seleucia babylon and arbela for lots of gold. everytime you raze a city you start bringing down a few units of scythian horse archers and once you get to that magic number of 4-5 you're going to be able to beat everything but a full stack

once again leave the two towns to your west to the rebels cause the garrisons get huge eventually and its a great wall for yourself. your main goal is to hold antioch to susa at which point the game is won. like i said with karkathiotheka with the ai spawning on slopes the city is untakable if you have 4-5 archers

same thing with edessa except not much of a slope so add more archers as egypt and seleucia will be hammering those points the most. i waited awhile before taking antioch cause i knew was gonna brew so take the time here to turtle a little bit and build up some infrastructure. i moved my capital to like arbela and once i hit antioch and jersualem i moved it to kark

[The Kybrothilian]

Thank you for the tips. I wont say, I'll follow them to the letter, but I'll try to take some use of them (I have a feeling, I'll get Pontos as neighbour anyway)

[XSamatan]

Discussion about different ways how to play a campaign in EB are welcome, however it has to stay a discussion not a 'war' about opinions...