SPIEGEL Interviews Iran's president Ahmadinejad

[Bwaho]

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/inte...418660,00.html

interesting parts:

the network of Zionism is very active around the world, in Europe too

Ahmadinejad: I know that DER SPIEGEL is a respected magazine. But I don't know whether it is possible for you to publish the truth about the Holocaust. Are you permitted to write everything about it?

Permit me to make one more point. We are of the opinion that, if an historical occurrence conforms to the truth, this truth will be revealed all the more clearly if there is more research into it and more discussion about it.

Why isn't research into a deed that occurred 60 years ago permitted? After all, other historical occurrences, some of which lie several thousand years in the past, are open to research, and even the governments support this.

Normally, governments promote and support the work of researchers on historical events and do not put them in prison

But the question is: Why among these 60 million victims are only the Jews the center of attention?

Why is such a burden heaped on the German people? The German people of today bear no guilt

Why are the crimes of one group emphasized so greatly, instead of highlighting the great German cultural heritage?

How much longer do you think the German people have to accept being taken hostage by the Zionists?

I am pleased to note that you are honest people and admit that you are obliged to support the Zionists.

It's interesting to note that European nations wanted to allow the shah's dictatorship the use of nuclear technology. That was a dangerous regime. Yet those nations were willing to supply it with nuclear technology

In 1980, it was also the nations of Europe and the United States that encouraged Saddam Hussein to attack us.

[OriginOfSymmetry]

he's just repeating what he allready said...
nothing new or interesting

[Kino]

Deleted by user.

[Bwaho]

Well I think it's a great shame that our European countries jail people because they don't believe in a historical event... imagine if they were to jail people because they didn't believe Romans slaughtered citizens of Carthage

[Kaweh]

So you compare the slaughtering of Carthage with the Holocaust?

K.K

[Bwaho]

So you compare the slaughtering of Carthage with the Holocaust?

What, it isn't good enough for you?

I couldn't think of any other massive slaughters when I wrote my previous post, but if you want another one I can give you this: Pol Pots exterminations in Cambodia.

[Kaweh]

Well, Bwaho, the difference beetween this slaughters is the fact that the Nazis saw the Jews and all the others they killed, as inferior and not even human... I just wondered how one can compare the Holocaust with ...the slaughtering of Carthage.

K.K

[Bwaho]

I just wondered how one can compare the Holocaust with ...the slaughtering of Carthage.

how do you think? you don't think carthaginians suffered when they were cut open with swords and burned alive? are you saying carthaginians aren't capable of feeling pain? or that their lives aren't worth anything because they were carthaginians?

the difference beetween this slaughters is the fact that the Nazis saw the Jews and all the others they killed, as inferior and not even human

aah, the old "demonizing the enemy" scheme. I assure you it isn't reserved for the jewish persecution only.

[Kaweh]

how do you think? you don't think carthaginians suffered when they were cut open with swords and burned alive? are you saying carthaginians aren't capable of feeling pain? or that their lives aren't worth anything because they were carthaginians?



aah, the old "demonizing the enemy" scheme. I assure you it isn't reserved for the jewish persecution only.

Well, I never said that. And I quite said the complete difference of "their lives aren't worth anything because they were carthaginians", I said the Nazis didn't even saw their victims as humans, while the Romans did, although they said they were "barbarians" and such, but they saw them as humans and tried to establish Roman law. Don't try to put words in my mouth I did never say! As far as I know, the Cartaghinians were humans in the eyes of the Romans, the jews and others were not in the eyes of the Nazis.
Now this is a difference I pointed out.

K.K

[wilpuri]

As we all know, the Holocaust is not a genocide, its a super-genocide, and thus cannot be compared to any other ordinary genocide.

[Bwaho]

As far as I know, the Cartaghinians were humans in the eyes of the Romans

Well then you don't know much. The concept of demonizing your enemies isn't a new one. It's been done in most wars and conflicts. The word "barbarian" wasn't used as a compliment you know

As we all know, the Holocaust is not a genocide, its a super-genocide, and thus cannot be compared to any other ordinary genocide.

sarcasm?

[Kaweh]

Barbarian meens someone who can't talk your language, wait and I'll look it up. Barbarian does not meen "your not human you deserve to die", you know?

K.K

[Kaweh]

Well then you don't know much. The concept of demonizing your enemies isn't a new one. It's been done in most wars and conflicts. The word "barbarian" wasn't used as a compliment you know

That's what you wrote, isn't it? And about 70% of your post are associated to the term "Barbarian", (because of your last sentence, you link the term "barbarian" to demonizing someone) so I answered to it. Quite obviously this was your try to give the discussion another direction. And still, a cruel person is not un-human. Although, if you have a look at the link I provided, you'll see that most of the meanings of "Barbarian" are other ones.

K.K

[Kaweh]

"Barbarian comes from the French barbarien or Mediæval Latin barbarinus, from Latin barbaria, from Latin barbarus, from the ancient Greek word βάρβαρος (barbaros) which meant a non-Greek, someone whose (first) language was not Greek.

or

An alternative theory to the word barbarian stems from the Latin barba, meaning beard (see barber). According to this theory, these individuals were termed by the clean-shaven Romans as bearded tribes, or barbarians"

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbarians

Still better then not being considered human, you know.

K.K

[Custor]

To paraprase Ahmadinejad - the Isralies are using monopolising holocaust guilt to further their own agenda and the Germans are still unfairly stigmatised for crimes commited by their forefathers.

That makes him a mad nazi?

[Ahlerich]

so basically this is about to become another "free speech/holocaust denier - irving" thread.
well the holocaust happend to be just 60 years ago. the laws that forbid ppl to play down or deny the crimes commited 60 years ago are a little younger. without those lies more neo nazi parties would spread the holocaust play down/denying..in in 1 or 2 generations ppl would be confused and many would not believe in the holocaust anymore. and that could be the first step towards a new holocaust.

now how far that should go and how it should be defined is up to courts and also up for discussion. if somebody, especially americans on the other end of the world do not understand these laws because ww2 did not happen in their front yard i get it. what i dont get is this strong belief in completly free speech while quit a few of your civil rights are slowly taken away from you in the presence. a little law to control the spreading of nazi propaganda in public. not a big deal

[repman]

The shocking of the holocaust is not that millions have been killed (this has happened often in history), but the industrial, well organized way it has been undertaken. It was a special way of german engineering: Made in germany. Normal People, industry, army, doctors,...nearly every group participated in a certain way.

But I don't like that german laws are forbidding any denial of the holocaust or similar statements. I prefer freedom of speech. And that a future holocaust can be repeated in germany is nonsense.

but the thread is about the statements of the iranian president:
for me this guy is talking nonsense, he was not answering directly any questions from the reporters in the interview.

repman

[Ahlerich]

the organization, as repman said, is shoking and also that it happend recently in history.

now if the vandals would have killed all christians when they raided rome could not be compared to the holocaust because it was a different time and a different thinking and a different opinion about what is normal or acceptable.

also it was not a mass murder of the enemy..it was a massmurder of germans as well as polish and russians which is pretty shocking.

[EDIT] well that a holocaust could happen again in germany was a fear when those laws have been made. if that was nonsense at that time i wont judge. it was prolly not more likely to happen again in germany than in any other country but maybe germany was more concerned to increase the chance that it wont happen again.

edit again: wow 4 out of 10 in the pit are germans

[Bwaho]

well the holocaust happend to be just 60 years ago. the laws that forbid ppl to play down or deny the crimes commited 60 years ago are a little younger. without those lies more neo nazi parties would spread the holocaust play down/denying..in in 1 or 2 generations ppl would be confused and many would not believe in the holocaust anymore. and that could be the first step towards a new holocaust.

This is exactly what it wouldn't do. Don't you see that it's the criminalization of denying this historical event that gives neo-nazis power? laws that forbid people to have different oppinions raise suspicion, it gives people a reason to think "why is it illegal to think otherwise, are you hiding something?".

The fact is, a vast majority believes the holocaust happened. There is obviously evidence to back it up. If people want to deny it...so be it, if we know it to be true then there is nothing to fear.

And still, a cruel person is not un-human

well you can go ahead and think that they viewed their enemies as equals, but reality shows something else.

also it was not a mass murder of the enemy..it was a massmurder of germans as well as polish and russians which is pretty shocking.

Nazis viewed jews as enemies (jews that had lived in germany for hundreds of years), so to them they were killing the enemy.

Polish and Russians? have you forgotten that Germany invaded Poland and Russia? so to them they were killing the enemy.

but the industrial, well organized way it has been undertaken

I agree it's disturbing, but if the intention is to kill someone then does it really matter what ways they go about it? wouldn't it be equally disturbing if they shot every jew they found on sight (granted they did this with many jews)?

A Roman cutting someones throat or a German shooting someone in the head, both cases are murder but they are done with different "tools"... hope that made sense.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyways guys, this has gone way off-topic... lets go back to discussing the interview with Iran's president.

[repman]

but the thread is about the statements of the iranian president:
for me this guy is talking nonsense, he was not answering directly any questions from the reporters in the interview. Hope that the israeli or americans have programmed some rockets on this country
diplomacy with him is a waste of time

repman