Micro-tactics Terms

[Mythodea]

Hello ladies(?) and gents! I have spent several weeks doing research about RTW MP. I have played online for a good while now and I kind of got bored with it so I decided to look up and try new things. Just for the sake of excitement and replayability I guess. I have read countless threads and posts, watched dozens of videos and replays and spent hours after hours testing stuff online.

As with everything in life, since I have put so much time and effort into this research, I have got A LOT out of it. I have learned considerable amounts of stuff (some of it quite revealing), which suprised me a wee bit since I have +4 years of MP experience. However, as I was learning and figuring out stuff, I came across certain terms that seem to be pretty significant when it comes down to MP battles. But as I searched the entire breadth of the Internet, I could not find clear definitions or explanations for them.

This forum is hands down the best place to interact with the RTW MP community, so hopefully you can give me a hand with defining these terms, giving an explanation, pros and cons and/or an example of their use:

• Cavalry Speed Trick - Legend has it that this micro-tactic would allow, for example, an exhausted Cataphract to outrun Light Lancers. Could not find anything about it besides the name.
• Z Timing - Apparently, one of the key elements to maximize the use of cavalry. I think I have a hunch by the name of it, but I would like the experts of it to elaborate on this one. Seems kind of complex.
• Phalanx Penetration - Similar to the cavalry charge-through but this one is made with infantry against phalanxes. I kind of figured this one out myself after I saw it mentioned, but I would still like to know your opinions and experiences with it.
• Phalanx Reordering - I was actually happy when I found out that I discovered this one by myself years ago before I read it in the forums. However, I found the slight variation that suggest to use the Alt attack after the backspace. My specific question is, what difference does the Alt attack have against a regular attack? we don't want the phalanx's secondary weapon (sword) right? I'm confused on that one.
• Charge-through Phalanxes - I thought it was a joke when I first read about it. I had to see it with my own eyes. To my surprise, I almost fell off my chair when I beat three layers of Sacred Band Infantry charging head on into their spears with my Cataphracts. I don't really have any specific questions for this one so I would just like to know your experiences with it in real MP battles.

Any information about these terms would be greatly appreciated Thank you very much in advanced!


Cheers!

[caesar_37th]

Hello ladies(?) and gents! I have spent several weeks doing research about RTW MP. I have played online for a good while now and I kind of got bored with it so I decided to look up and try new things. Just for the sake of excitement and replayability I guess. I have read countless threads and posts, watched dozens of videos and replays and spent hours after hours testing stuff online.

As with everything in life, since I have put so much time and effort into this research, I have got A LOT out of it. I have learned considerable amounts of stuff (some of it quite revealing), which suprised me a wee bit since I have +4 years of MP experience. However, as I was learning and figuring out stuff, I came across certain terms that seem to be pretty significant when it comes down to MP battles. But as I searched the entire breadth of the Internet, I could not find clear definitions or explanations for them.

This forum is hands down the best place to interact with the RTW MP community, so hopefully you can give me a hand with defining these terms, giving an explanation, pros and cons and/or an example of their use:

• Cavalry Speed Trick - Legend has it that this micro-tactic would allow, for example, an exhausted Cataphract to outrun Light Lancers. Could not find anything about it besides the name.
• Z Timing - Apparently, one of the key elements to maximize the use of cavalry. I think I have a hunch by the name of it, but I would like the experts of it to elaborate on this one. Seems kind of complex.
• Phalanx Penetration - Similar to the cavalry charge-through but this one is made with infantry against phalanxes. I kind of figured this one out myself after I saw it mentioned, but I would still like to know your opinions and experiences with it.
• Phalanx Reordering - I was actually happy when I found out that I discovered this one by myself years ago before I read it in the forums. However, I found the slight variation that suggest to use the Alt attack after the backspace. My specific question is, what difference does the Alt attack have against a regular attack? we don't want the phalanx's secondary weapon (sword) right? I'm confused on that one.
• Charge-through Phalanxes - I thought it was a joke when I first read about it. I had to see it with my own eyes. To my surprise, I almost fell off my chair when I beat three layers of Sacred Band Infantry charging head on into their spears with my Cataphracts. I don't really have any specific questions for this one so I would just like to know your experiences with it in real MP battles.

Any information about these terms would be greatly appreciated Thank you very much in advanced!
y

Cheers!

this isn't the best place to interact. Many of those tricks are classified.

[|-HoS-|-Zeke]

Yes all of these are real.

[Mythodea]

Yes all of these are real.

I hope they are

Could you elaborate a little bit on them?

[DarthLazy]

Nobody would, you would have to get into a clan, or get someone to show them to you in an actual game .

[roam]

I would happily tell you but for 2 reasons:

1. It would mean me getting kicked out of my retirement home
2. I probably know most of them, but I rarely bother to use them.

Exhausted catas outrunning lancers? Why on earth do you want to outrun them anyway?

[Magic_8_Ball]

[*]Cavalry Speed Trick - Legend has it that this micro-tactic would allow, for example, an exhausted Cataphract to outrun Light Lancers. Could not find anything about it besides the name.[*]Z Timing - Apparently, one of the key elements to maximize the use of cavalry. I think I have a hunch by the name of it, but I would like the experts of it to elaborate on this one. Seems kind of complex.[*]Phalanx Penetration - Similar to the cavalry charge-through but this one is made with infantry against phalanxes. I kind of figured this one out myself after I saw it mentioned, but I would still like to know your opinions and experiences with it.[*]Phalanx Reordering - I was actually happy when I found out that I discovered this one by myself years ago before I read it in the forums. However, I found the slight variation that suggest to use the Alt attack after the backspace. My specific question is, what difference does the Alt attack have against a regular attack? we don't want the phalanx's secondary weapon (sword) right? I'm confused on that one.[*]Charge-through Phalanxes - I thought it was a joke when I first read about it. I had to see it with my own eyes. To my surprise, I almost fell off my chair when I beat three layers of Sacred Band Infantry charging head on into their spears with my Cataphracts. I don't really have any specific questions for this one so I would just like to know your experiences with it in real MP battles.[/LIST]
:

I hardly pay attention to terminology, so expect some answers.

1. Haven't heard anybody explicitly say there was a speed trick, but it might be one that everybody knows. Veering right or left sharply as the pursuing lancer charges keeps the lancer from touching your cav.
2. That's a slice wedge charge.
3. That may be a reference to using an urban, charging at a phalanx, clicking past the unit right after, and then re-attacking. It'll break a few rows, but I don't use it much.
4. I can't fully answer that, but if you press alt attack alone, the your pikes will come back up while a normal attack doesn't do anything. Backspace reorganizes the formation afaik.
5. Yes, catas can beat phalanxes head on.

Also, anybody saying these are "clan secrets" or that you need to be in a clan to know simple tricks is being stupid.

[|-HoS-|-Zeke]

Z timing is not the same as charge through/slice charge, although it can incorporate CT/SC into it.

[Mythodea]

I hardly pay attention to terminology, so expect some answers.

1. Haven't heard anybody explicitly say there was a speed trick, but it might be one that everybody knows. Veering right or left sharply as the pursuing lancer charges keeps the lancer from touching your cav.
2. That's a slice wedge charge.
3. That may be a reference to using an urban, charging at a phalanx, clicking past the unit right after, and then re-attacking. It'll break a few rows, but I don't use it much.
4. I can't fully answer that, but if you press alt attack alone, the your pikes will come back up while a normal attack doesn't do anything. Backspace reorganizes the formation afaik.
5. Yes, catas can beat phalanxes head on.

Also, anybody saying these are "clan secrets" or that you need to be in a clan to know simple tricks is being stupid.

Thanks for the info! I tried what you suggested for #1 and while the Cataphracts did not outrun the Light Lancers, they didn't take any damage (maybe 1-2 casualties) while veering. It is kind of very micro intensive clicking so quickly and so often, but I guess it can have its uses at the end of a battle.

roam
I would happily tell you but for 2 reasons:

1. It would mean me getting kicked out of my retirement home
2. I probably know most of them, but I rarely bother to use them.

Exhausted catas outrunning lancers? Why on earth do you want to outrun them anyway?

I would still enormously appreciate if you did share them As for your question, sometimes it happens that some cavalry units get isolated and become vulnerable to cavalry surroundings and charges. Therefore, if I can "outrun" them with that micro-tactic, I can bring them back to the main army safely or with minor casualties.

|-HoS-|-Zeke
Z timing is not the same as charge through/slice charge, although it can incorporate CT/SC into it.

Could you define what exactly is it?

Thanks people!

[|-HoS-|-Zeke]

No.

[Magic_8_Ball]

No.

That would've been a great opportunity to say, "life is not fair, my son."

[roam]

That would've been a great opportunity to say, "life is not fair, my son."

And an even better time to reply 'Then I will make it fair' has been lost forever. The shame.

[RTW Fan]

Hello ladies(?) and gents! I have spent several weeks doing research about RTW MP. I have played online for a good while now and I kind of got bored with it so I decided to look up and try new things. Just for the sake of excitement and replayability I guess. I have read countless threads and posts, watched dozens of videos and replays and spent hours after hours testing stuff online.

As with everything in life, since I have put so much time and effort into this research, I have got A LOT out of it. I have learned considerable amounts of stuff (some of it quite revealing), which suprised me a wee bit since I have +4 years of MP experience. However, as I was learning and figuring out stuff, I came across certain terms that seem to be pretty significant when it comes down to MP battles. But as I searched the entire breadth of the Internet, I could not find clear definitions or explanations for them.

This forum is hands down the best place to interact with the RTW MP community, so hopefully you can give me a hand with defining these terms, giving an explanation, pros and cons and/or an example of their use:

• Cavalry Speed Trick - Legend has it that this micro-tactic would allow, for example, an exhausted Cataphract to outrun Light Lancers. Could not find anything about it besides the name.
• Z Timing - Apparently, one of the key elements to maximize the use of cavalry. I think I have a hunch by the name of it, but I would like the experts of it to elaborate on this one. Seems kind of complex.
• Phalanx Penetration - Similar to the cavalry charge-through but this one is made with infantry against phalanxes. I kind of figured this one out myself after I saw it mentioned, but I would still like to know your opinions and experiences with it.
• Phalanx Reordering - I was actually happy when I found out that I discovered this one by myself years ago before I read it in the forums. However, I found the slight variation that suggest to use the Alt attack after the backspace. My specific question is, what difference does the Alt attack have against a regular attack? we don't want the phalanx's secondary weapon (sword) right? I'm confused on that one.
• Charge-through Phalanxes - I thought it was a joke when I first read about it. I had to see it with my own eyes. To my surprise, I almost fell off my chair when I beat three layers of Sacred Band Infantry charging head on into their spears with my Cataphracts. I don't really have any specific questions for this one so I would just like to know your experiences with it in real MP battles.

Any information about these terms would be greatly appreciated Thank you very much in advanced!


Cheers!

1) I do not know it. Maybe it involves hitting the withdraw button, or maybe it involves tonnes of sidesteps, but do not know it. I find with chasing exhausted cav against a good player is that the best bet is to try to pre-empt the side step.

2) Play a custom battle with a gold chevron cav unit attacking an (preferably engaged) infantry unit. Watch how it moves, WHEN IT ATTACKS FROM THE SIDE, than attempt to replicate with micro. Will cause routs of foot units that have hardly lost any men.

3) Yes, double click run behind the phalanx when it is not facing you. Again, something that can be found by seeing what gold chevron experience soldiers do to cause routs in custom battles.

4) Not sure with this one, knew about re-ordering, maybe it is assuming that you are out of phalanx. Never used enough phalanxes myself.

5) Yes, a great way to break noob boxes without missiles, so long as there is enough weight to the cavalry charge. For some reason, they can never imagine that you would charge right through their overextended unit into the backs of the units engaged with your infantry.

Hope that helps, not sure why there is any bother about secrecy tactics for a game out for 8 years now.

[Mythodea]

1) I do not know it. Maybe it involves hitting the withdraw button, or maybe it involves tonnes of sidesteps, but do not know it. I find with chasing exhausted cav against a good player is that the best bet is to try to pre-empt the side step.

2) Play a custom battle with a gold chevron cav unit attacking an (preferably engaged) infantry unit. Watch how it moves, than attempt to replicate with micro. Will cause routs of foot units that have hardly lost any men.

3) Yes, double click run behind the phalanx when it is not facing you. Again, something that can be found by seeing what gold chevron experience soldiers do to cause routs in custom battles.

4) Not sure with this one, knew about re-ordering, maybe it is assuming that you are out of phalanx. Never used enough phalanxes myself.

5) Yes, a great way to break noob boxes without missiles, so long as there is enough weight to the cavalry charge. For some reason, they can never imagine that you would charge right through their overextended unit into the backs of the units engaged with your infantry.

Hope that helps, not sure why there is any bother about secrecy tactics for a game out for 8 years now.

Thank you so much!

For #1, I think the side step or sharp veering over and over can keep the unit from taking any damage from its chaser. It doesn't quite outruns it but it kind of messes it up because it's trying to catch you and then attack you while you are only trying to run away. Those microseconds that it takes for a sword/spear blow make the whole difference apparently

For #2, I tried what you said many times with a lot of mixed results. In some cases the cav would just do hammer & anvil strikes, other times they would stand behind their own engaged infantry and run trough it and smash the front of the enemy unit just like Rome vs Rome 31k battles go. The third, and most devastating one, was one in which the cav went to the flanks of the enemy and, since I was using Rome vs Rome, at the exact moment when both lines exchanged pila, the cavalry hit them from the sides, causing immediate routes. This kind of makes sense since it involves timing, but then again I had gold chevron cav fighting, which would never happen in MP. I'm not exactly sure what I am looking for on this one, could you be a little bit more specific s'il vous plait

Thanks again, this has already been extremely helpful!

[RTW Fan]

Thank you so much!

For #2, I tried what you said many times with a lot of mixed results. In some cases the cav would just do hammer & anvil strikes, other times they would stand behind their own engaged infantry and run trough it and smash the front of the enemy unit just like Rome vs Rome 31k battles go. The third, and most devastating one, was one in which the cav went to the flanks of the enemy and, since I was using Rome vs Rome, at the exact moment when both lines exchanged pila, the cavalry hit them from the sides, causing immediate routes. This kind of makes sense since it involves timing, but then again I had gold chevron cav fighting, which would never happen in MP. I'm not exactly sure what I am looking for on this one, could you be a little bit more specific s'il vous plait

Thanks again, this has already been extremely helpful!

Yeah, the bodyguards tend to do it better. The point is, that you are trying to take advantage of three morale lowering things.

1) fear of flank attack

2) The initial casualties of the charge

3) The effect that running completely through enemy infantry has on their morale.

The way to do it, charge to the units side, attack their unit diagonnally towards your line. Do whatever it takes to make sure your cav is really thick in their infantry. Than charge at an archer units behind their line to complete the run through of their unit. They often will not break until you leave them.

[roam]

Oh hai der roameh how ya doing ?

We need to talk on x fire / steam w/e sometime!

I've been trying to go on xfire but it wants me to update it, and that means I can't play any games whilst its updating.
Since the only time i've really wanted to go on xfire is when i've been on rtw, it has been rather self defeating :p

Yeah, the bodyguards tend to do it better. The point is, that you are trying to take advantage of three morale lowering things.

1) fear of flank attack

2) The initial casualties of the charge

3) The effect that running completely through enemy infantry has on their morale.

The way to do it, charge to the units side, attack their unit diagonnally towards your line. Do whatever it takes to make sure your cav is really thick in their infantry. Than charge at an archer units behind their line to complete the run through of their unit. They often will not break until you leave them.

Don't try charging through from the front vs engaged urbans in Rome v Rome. I used to do that for a long time and always wondered why I lost :p

I don't understand the reference to bodyguards...the whole point of the charge through is it supposed to be used with cav in wedge, since cavalry in wedge don't stop charging till they reach the target. Bodyguards can't form wedge.
At least that is what Sith Max led me to understand the concept was when he taught it to me nigh on 2 years ago :p

Incidentally, if you want to improve your micro, play as the brits :p

[Kensai Of Carthage]

Yeah, when I did that charge-through thingy by myself, because I didn't believed it too, I fell down from chair too, when I did that, also my cat was excited too

[Kensai Of Carthage]

I think, you forgot about mass-firing

[Mythodea]

I think, you forgot about mass-firing

I might know that one but I'm not sure, how do you define it?

[Kensai Of Carthage]

I might know that one but I'm not sure, how do you define it?

It's when you pick ALL of your archers and order one unit of archers or infantry. It doesn't matter, just pile one unit with all your archers, winning with minimal casualties.
And that's the only way, I can win slingers vs cretans >=D