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  1. #1
    Nevins's Avatar Semper Gumby
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    Default US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    We have had several large threads on this topic already, and I guess that the DoD thought we had gone far too long without one. The BBC reports that the DoD has decided to allow women to attach at the Battalion rather than Brigade Level. Fortunately they are still barred from the Special Operations, Armor, and Infantry arms of the various Service Branches. I am a bit worried by this statement:

    Its director Anu Bhagwati, a former Marine captain, said: "It's time military leadership establish the same level playing field to qualified women to enter the infantry, special forces and other all-male units."
    because until I see women held to anywhere close to the same standard as their male counterparts I can't see much good coming from it.

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  2. #2

    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    Weird, was talking to a SFC about this just earlier today. I think soldiers got an e-mail about it. But man, you wouldn't believe (or maybe you would) how many females are broken just from boot camp, and like only 20-30 females in my whole Detachment are medically qualified to try for our base run team. No ing way this should happen. That's not sexist, just recognition of limitations. Females' hips in particular just can't cope with the stress of constant hiking with large packs.

    They can be equalized in less intensive ways though, and this is a good start. Letting females be field surgeons and the like, it's a good move. And this might sound trivial but females are about to have a change for their PFT, too, doing pull-ups like the guys instead of an arm hang. Small, but us guys like it.
    Last edited by motiv-8; February 09, 2012 at 08:40 PM.
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    Nevins's Avatar Semper Gumby
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    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    Weird, was talking to a SFC about this just earlier today. I think soldiers got an e-mail about it. But man, you wouldn't believe (or maybe you would) how many females are broken just from boot camp, and like only 20-30 females in my whole Detachment are medically qualified to try for our base run team. No ing way this should happen. That's not sexist, just recognition of limitations. Females' hips in particular just can't cope with the stress of constant hiking with large packs.

    They can be equalized in less intensive ways though, and this is a good start. Letting females be field surgeons and the like, it's a good move. And this might sound trivial but females are about to have a change for their PFT, too, doing pull-ups like the guys instead of an arm hang. Small, but us guys like it.
    You talking about them changing the female scale from FAH to Pullups, 7 is max but they are awarded 70 points for the first repitition?
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  4. #4

    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    Yup. You might laugh, but a girl doing 7 pullups is not terribly rare and more than a lot of guys can do.
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    Imperial's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevins View Post
    I am a bit worried by this statement:
    I wouldn't be. There's always some fem-Nazi in the military with agendas to push. They've been saying this for decades, and nothing has come out of it.

  6. #6

    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    Quote Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
    I wouldn't be. There's always some fem-Nazi in the military with agendas to push. They've been saying this for decades, and nothing has come out of it.
    So says the dude with the futuristic soldier chick in his sig. Nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz
    For the US, it makes more sense to have women in supporting roles. It’s not like being a paramedic is any less dangerous or honorable.
    Medics have it worse. That big red cross might as well be a bullseye. And they'd better be pretty butch, if they're to carry wounded soldiers amidst flying bullets...

    Seems to me if they're physically capable of the same duties, they should be allowed. But they usually cannot. Thus, other roles...tankers, drivers, artillery spotters...wherever strength is a less important attribute.

    Beyond that I cannot really comment. I can see good reasons on both sides of the argument, but since I'm no soldier, I'll leave the debate up to those who know the culture.
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    Imperial's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    Quote Originally Posted by chamaeleo View Post
    So says the dude with the futuristic soldier chick in his sig.

    She has special powers.


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    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    Weird, was talking to a SFC about this just earlier today. I think soldiers got an e-mail about it. But man, you wouldn't believe (or maybe you would) how many females are broken just from boot camp, and like only 20-30 females in my whole Detachment are medically qualified to try for our base run team. No ing way this should happen. That's not sexist, just recognition of limitations. Females' hips in particular just can't cope with the stress of constant hiking with large packs.
    This is just what West Point found when they experimented with a class by having the women do the same field evolution (some Crucible type event) as the men. It resulted in far higher rates of women ending up at medical and taking far longer to heal.

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    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    Quote Originally Posted by s.rwitt View Post
    This is just what West Point found when they experimented with a class by having the women do the same field evolution (some Crucible type event) as the men. It resulted in far higher rates of women ending up at medical and taking far longer to heal.
    Pretty sure that is the recondo event they used to run, they gave up on it because so few of the females were passing it.
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    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    Quote Originally Posted by s.rwitt View Post
    It resulted in far higher rates of women ending up at medical and taking far longer to heal.
    Mostly sprains and fractures I would imagine. The rate of stress fractures has skyrocketed. And then you get into chronic injuries that has the Army actually thinking of deploying physical therapists.

    Forget the other arguments; this should be an immediate qualifier.
    Many of their Marines are suffering chronic stress fractures, low back problems as well as hip problems caused by carrying loads in excess of 130 pounds daily. ”We’re fighting the Mothers of America” said one; if we lose a Marine and he was not wearing everything in the inventory to protect him that becomes the issue. Trying to explain that we have removed the body armor to reduce the chances of being shot is a losers game because you can’t produce data quantifying the reduction in gun shot wounds for troops who remain alert and are able to move fast due to a lighter load.

    He is likely going “across the line” at 120 to 130 pounds. He is suffering in heat and with heavy battle space weight. For weight lifters like me, let’s put this in terms we can understand. This is like putting three York 45 pound plates in a backpack and humping it for ten or fifteen miles in 100+ degree Fahrenheit weather.

    Another salient point bears down on us. This is why women are not allowed in Marine infantry (or Army Special Forces), and why women suffered an inordinately high number of lower extremity injuries (leading to ineffective Russian units) when they deployed with the Russian Army in their losing campaign in Afghanistan. Just like God decides the weight of water, He also decides the physiques of men and women.

    The heavy loads shouldered over months of duty contribute to the chronic pain suffered by soldiers like Spc. Joseph Chroniger, who deployed to Iraq in 2007.

    Twenty-five years old, he has debilitating pain from a form of degenerative arthritis and bone spurs. “I mean my neck hurts every day. Every day,” he says. “You can’t concentrate on anything but that because it hurts that bad.”

    Almost 20 years ago, columnist Fred Reed published results of an Army study, comparing fitness levels among male and female soldiers. The data reaffirms that most women simply lack the upper body strength and endurance required by an Army infantryman, a Marine rifleman, or most special forces MOS’s.

    The average female Army recruit is 4.8 inches shorter, 31.7 pounds lighter, has 37.4 fewer pounds of muscle, and 5.7 more pounds of fat than the average male recruit. She has only 55 percent of the upper-body strength and 72 percent of the lower-body strength… An Army study of 124 men and 186 women done in 1988 found that women are more than twice as likely to suffer leg injuries and nearly five times as likely to suffer fractures as men.

    The Commission heard an abundance of expert testimony about the physical differences between men and women that can be summarized as follows:Women’s aerobic capacity is significantly lower, meaning they cannot carry as much as far as fast as men, and they are more susceptible to fatigue. In terms of physical capability, the upper five percent of women are at the level of the male median. The average 20-to-30 year-old woman has the same aerobic capacity as a 50 year-old man.

    The same report also cited a West Point study from the early 90s which discovered that, in terms of fitness, the upper quintile of female cadets achieved scores equal to the lowest quintile of their male counterparts (emphasis ours).

    So, what’s a chief diversity officer supposed to do (don’t laugh–the commission recommends creation of that very post, reporting directly to the SecDef). Water down the standards so more women will qualify for combat service, removing that “barrier” to reaching the flag ranks? Or create some sort of double-standard, allowing females to punch their resumes in the right places and continue their climb to the stars.

  11. #11

    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    I got schooled a few years ago by s.rwitt when I tried to argue for equality between sexes on the battlefield.

    Was pretty much convinced by his argument when he suggested that women would become a target for capture, not so much a weak link in the chain, but an easy one to target.

    Regardless, I was pretty convinced.

  12. #12

    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    Most women are too illogically scared to drive a car on the highway and buy ridiculously large SUVs as a result. They still fear it and end up being the most dangerous drivers on the road due to their fearful driving tactics. If one of them wants to do something as dangerous as infantry or special forces more power to them because they are clearly not that type of person. I don't know any women who would want to..... wait nevermind i know one. Shes probably more manly than most on this forum as she goes hunting and skins and dresses her own deer and makes coyote pelts out of roadkill.

    I don't like meek and timid people. I COULD NOT STAND IT when this one girl always wanted me to drive her EVERYWHERE simply because she FEARED driving. I eventually found that is how most women feel. Its annoying as . That kind of person should NOT be in such a role. However those who CHOOSE to would NEVER be like that before the ones who would be meek and timid would not pick that kind of job. They should not randomly put them into infantry with some kind of a open contract.
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  13. #13

    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanaric View Post
    Most women are too illogically scared to drive a car on the highway and buy ridiculously large SUVs as a result. They still fear it and end up being the most dangerous drivers on the road due to their fearful driving tactics. If one of them wants to do something as dangerous as infantry or special forces more power to them because they are clearly not that type of person. I don't know any women who would want to..... wait nevermind i know one. Shes probably more manly than most on this forum as she goes hunting and skins and dresses her own deer and makes coyote pelts out of roadkill.

    I don't like meek and timid people. I COULD NOT STAND IT when this one girl always wanted me to drive her EVERYWHERE simply because she FEARED driving. I eventually found that is how most women feel. Its annoying as . That kind of person should NOT be in such a role. However those who CHOOSE to would NEVER be like that before the ones who would be meek and timid would not pick that kind of job. They should not randomly put them into infantry with some kind of a open contract.
    What does ranting about people who can't pass the tests have to do with people that can pass the tests? Just wondering.
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    Tomboys and lesbiens are often as manly as men.
    The IDF has a good army and women serve.Look at myt link....Its amazing...

    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...pIwm5Pvby-aAtA

  15. #15

    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Cruise View Post
    Tomboys and lesbiens are often as manly as men.
    The IDF has a good army and women serve.Look at myt link....Its amazing...

    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct...pIwm5Pvby-aAtA
    I guess you didn’t want to include this IDF chick because she’s an Arab:



    Nice apartheid link Tom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


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    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post



    Nice apartheid link Tom.
    She could be a Druze they are loyal to whoever is in charge....You know Arabs Israelis are not allowed to fly fighter aircraft... If you had clicked page 2 you would have seen IDF babes.
    Guess you just stayed on the 1st page fap fap fap


    Hot Israeli Defense Force Chicks Written by The Elder
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    One of my closet friends is in the USMC "RECON" and he said he met some Israeli Defense Force soldiers who were chicks. The crazy thing was that he told me they were hot and politically outspoken! I then decided to do a little state side recon to see if the rumors he was speaking of were true. I couldn't believe what I discovered using the internet, (actually I could because the internet has everything on it) they were all hot chicks with guns! If you didn't know, in Israeli everyone serves in the military because the whole world is against them. I have to admit, the whole chick with guns fighting for the right to live turned me on. My friend is thinking about converting so peep out these hot Israeli chicks and you decide for yourself.
    Ill be right back i have to hoover my room
    Last edited by John ''True Grit'' Wayne; February 10, 2012 at 05:48 AM.

  17. #17
    Nevins's Avatar Semper Gumby
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    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    I actually have an Israeli friend who use to about women in the IDF. His basic argument was that women expected to be granted all of the same privileges as male soldiers, but also expected to be held at lower standards because it was discriminatory to hold them to the same standards as males. Not to mention that the IDF doesn't really use its female soldiers.
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    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevins View Post
    I actually have an Israeli friend who use to about women in the IDF. His basic argument was that women expected to be granted all of the same privileges as male soldiers, but also expected to be held at lower standards because it was discriminatory to hold them to the same standards as males.
    Hmm... one can maybe see that happening here too, but not just in a military context.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevins View Post
    Not to mention that the IDF doesn't really use its female soldiers.
    They use them a lot, but not so much in combat roles, which I assume is what you meant. Caracal Battalion is a mostly female combat unit that has been involved in border patrols and evacuating settlers from the Gaza Strip. Of course, Israel’s situation is totally different than the US in that they’ll need everyone than can in the event of an actual conventional war with their neighbors. For the US, it makes more sense to have women in supporting roles. It’s not like being a paramedic is any less dangerous or honorable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  19. #19

    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    IIRC the German guidebook to fighting terrorism has an instruction somewhere that states they have to shoot the women first.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  20. #20

    Default Re: US Armed Forces to "Ease" Restrictions on Women

    Always good for screwing with enemy morale.
    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    How about we define the rights that allow a government to say that isn't within my freedom.

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