The Sekigahara Campaign - Suggestions and Feedback

[Erwin Rommel]

Pic removed. RROOMMMMMMEEEEELLLL!

GOMENASAI! HONTO NI GOMENASAI......

*bows repeatedly*

I erred in that regard Anton-sama.








Anyway, maybe Toshiee's kabuto? or the legendary shogun kabuto minus the crests.... Make them as a replacement of the Bulletproof samurai.

[The_Nord]

I was also thinking of the Toshiie helmet and the shogun helmet. Another Idea was kiyomasa's helmet coloured completly yellow. But darn it, Kiyomasa and Kiyomasa alone should have his awesomesauce helmet.

And we all know that the only bulletproof samurai in the Date armies was Masamune himself.

[madpluck]

And we all know that the only bulletproof samurai in the Date armies was Masamune himself.

Yeah but that wasn't because of his armour, it was his aura of bad-assery.

[The_Nord]

Hey Anton, how about adding the original music from Shogun: Total War to this mod? God know this game needs more music.

[Akaie]

I'd love to do that. In fact, I have lots of traditional japanese music. I actually put together a music pack of my own. Sadly, I cannot distribute it due to copyright .

[Robin de Bodemloze]

The Ishida have rightfully been established as the shogunate. Now my thoughts on v0.75:

Units

- Matchlocks have been nerfed to the point where they are far weaker than bows. They feel even weaker than vanilla matchlocks at the moment and are basically useless. I had a single matchlock unit in my main army by the end of my campaign
- Any reason why katana samurai are 75 men but yari samurai are 90? Yari samurai feel very weak right now for some reason - could be just that I'm using them wrong
- Bow monks are WAY too deadly
- Katana ashigaru unit size should be bigger I think. For their cost and ashigaru status they're really not that effective even against yari ashigaru
- Taisho units way too delicate. For supposedly elite bodyguards they're really bad in melee

Buildings

- Builder colony shouldn't require research and should be cheaper and have stronger effects - right now there is no reason to ever build them
- Markets to not use up food? Can we have the embassy buildings use up food instead? The effects of building them can be amplified to make them more worth building - all to emphasize the trade-off between growth and doing useful things like boost research/alignment

Diplomacy

- Political alignment effects should be mild but affect everybody I think

Game mechanics

- Siege is too favoured towards the attacker. Right now units can shoot from outside in as if the walls weren't there. Is there a way to make the walls stronger like before, but make the CAI more inclined to siege a castle rather than try to storm it straight away unless it has quite a big advantage?
- Can we have the alignment modifiers tweaked so that dairinnin are actually useful?

CAI

- Is there a way to make the CAI more aware of winter and not exposing itself to attrition?

Bugs

- Dairinnin still referred to as Toyotomi monks in the "agent converted" screens and some other places
- Christianity referece - Jordan River Water (http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/50...BC4D1931540A6/)
- Weird "wrong religion" symbol with warrior nuns (http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/50...101FA816913A0/)

On the issue of adding starting generals, is it possible to do it in a scripted "recruit general?" dilemma on turn 1 or something? E.g. get a dilemma whether to recruit a general for 0 koku who "happens" to be called Sanada Yukimura?

I feel like on the clan selection menu the descriptions of the clans and the bonuses could be more informative. I could write up some suggestions for v1.0 if not the patch.

[Akaie]

Great to hear some lengthy feedback . Hopefully a few more people can weigh in on these points.

The Ishida have rightfully been established as the shogunate. Now my thoughts on v0.75:

Units

- Matchlocks have been nerfed to the point where they are far weaker than bows. They feel even weaker than vanilla matchlocks at the moment and are basically useless. I had a single matchlock unit in my main army by the end of my campaign
- Any reason why katana samurai are 75 men but yari samurai are 90? Yari samurai feel very weak right now for some reason - could be just that I'm using them wrong
- Bow monks are WAY too deadly
- Katana ashigaru unit size should be bigger I think. For their cost and ashigaru status they're really not that effective even against yari ashigaru
- Taisho units way too delicate. For supposedly elite bodyguards they're really bad in melee

-Considering how much I nerfed them, they probably could stand to be buffed up a little bit.
-Yari > more common. It isn't a perfect reflection of numbers, but these units are stylized. Part of the balancing is to make sure tiered units don't rip the living crap out of their lesser counterpart. So, it's not unreasonable that you think they feel weak, because in comparison to vanilla they are. They are a step-up from yari ashigaru, but don't make the mistake of thinking that you can just right-click on the yari ashigaru and win .
-Agreed, however this is another case of the battles requiring much more attention. The katana ashigaru are not so great head-to-head with a yari ashigaru unit. That fight could go either way. For their cost, they have a pretty decent charge and can hold fairly well. As I noted in the guides thread, get them flanking the enemy and you'll loose far less men, both in the katana ashigaru and the unit going head-on with the opposing unit/s.
-Agreed. As I noted elsewhere, I'll boost their numbers and bump their stats a little bit. I can't do much about suicidal generals; that's something CA need to deal with.

Buildings

- Builder colony shouldn't require research and should be cheaper and have stronger effects - right now there is no reason to ever build them
- Markets to not use up food? Can we have the embassy buildings use up food instead? The effects of building them can be amplified to make them more worth building - all to emphasize the trade-off between growth and doing useful things like boost research/alignment

-The Builder colony is only a placeholder to then provide the choice between building or naval benefits, so I can take it from the tech tree. This is actually a decent idea, as putting the Sake Den on the tech tree will encourage the AI to go for the builder colony first and help their economy out in the long-run. I'm willing to change the percentages from -10%, -20% and -25% to -15%, -24% and -35%, which is quite a significant boost. Do you agree with these bumps?
-Food is a very annoying issue. I wanted to apply your idea throughout the higher tier buildings, but the AI is yet again terrible in this regard. If i do do this, we'd probably find more rebellions and such. What I figure we can do is cripple the markets' consumption of food and divert that same amount elsewhere. This way, the AI is no worse off.

Diplomacy

- Political alignment effects should be mild but affect everybody I think

I believe I've responded to this elsewhere .

Game mechanics

- Siege is too favoured towards the attacker. Right now units can shoot from outside in as if the walls weren't there. Is there a way to make the walls stronger like before, but make the CAI more inclined to siege a castle rather than try to storm it straight away unless it has quite a big advantage?
- Can we have the alignment modifiers tweaked so that dairinnin are actually useful?

-Sieges will always favour the defender. Units can defend much better whilst defending in a fort; that hasn't changed. What has changed is the defender ripping the attacker to shreds with bows and teppo; finally the attacker has more forces to climb the walls! The walls themselves are not weak, but soldiers that are stationed at them are not as powerful. In my opinion, it's good at the moment. Believe it or not, the defender is still more powerful when it comes to ranged attacks. I'm happy to admit that nerfing units at the wall level is not the most appealing way of balancing out sieges, but it does do the job.
-As for the CAI, there could be a protocol. I'll look into it. I know the AI will completely avoid sieges if they figure they're outgunned (in many cases, not all; CAI is still weird), and that if they do lay siege they may not attack the fortress if they still figure they are a tad outgunned. Perhaps I can influence that somewhere.
-I'm still looking for the base zeal value. It is elusive. Perhaps I can boost the value via the agent tech tree and essentially turn it into an unlockable ability .

CAI

- Is there a way to make the CAI more aware of winter and not exposing itself to attrition?

I'll look, although I figure we would have a mini-mod for it if it were possible. No harm checking .

[Bartolomeo XIII]

It would be good to have 3 experience points per level for agents and generals, also the frequency at which you have a proposition to enlist new general could be higher

[Robin de Bodemloze]

-Considering how much I nerfed them, they probably could stand to be buffed up a little bit. Right now if I put a unit of teppo against a unit of bow the teppo will get ripped to shreds every time. Teppo reload should be higher I feel since it's far easier to train someone to fire a gun than a yumi. Accuracy can be lower than bows to compensate

-Yari > more common. It isn't a perfect reflection of numbers, but these units are stylized. Part of the balancing is to make sure tiered units don't rip the living crap out of their lesser counterpart. So, it's not unreasonable that you think they feel weak, because in comparison to vanilla they are. They are a step-up from yari ashigaru, but don't make the mistake of thinking that you can just right-click on the yari ashigaru and win Fair enough. I still think the yari samurai are too weak (in absolute terms, not just compared to vanilla) but if you disagree it's not something I'm very hung up about

-Agreed, however this is another case of the battles requiring much more attention. The katana ashigaru are not so great head-to-head with a yari ashigaru unit. That fight could go either way. For their cost, they have a pretty decent charge and can hold fairly well. As I noted in the guides thread, get them flanking the enemy and you'll loose far less men, both in the katana ashigaru and the unit going head-on with the opposing unit/s. If they're supposed to be roughly equivalent in strength then make them roughly equivalent in cost, flanking units or not. Right now the extra 200 koku isn't worth it.

-Agreed. As I noted elsewhere, I'll boost their numbers and bump their stats a little bit. I can't do much about suicidal generals; that's something CA need to deal with. Sounds good.

-The Builder colony is only a placeholder to then provide the choice between building or naval benefits, so I can take it from the tech tree. This is actually a decent idea, as putting the Sake Den on the tech tree will encourage the AI to go for the builder colony first and help their economy out in the long-run. I'm willing to change the percentages from -10%, -20% and -25% to -15%, -24% and -35%, which is quite a significant boost. Do you agree with these bumps? Sounds good. What I'd much prefer is if the boosts were lower but stackable and effective globally - so if you built a couple your whole empire would benefit greatly. If that confuses the AI then perhaps stick with your current idea.

-Food is a very annoying issue. I wanted to apply your idea throughout the higher tier buildings, but the AI is yet again terrible in this regard. If i do do this, we'd probably find more rebellions and such. What I figure we can do is cripple the markets' consumption of food and divert that same amount elsewhere. This way, the AI is no worse off. Just move the market food costs to the embassy chain one-for-one? Then make the boosts the embassy give stronger so the food cost is worth it

-Sieges will always favour the defender. Units can defend much better whilst defending in a fort; that hasn't changed. What has changed is the defender ripping the attacker to shreds with bows and teppo; finally the attacker has more forces to climb the walls! The walls themselves are not weak, but soldiers that are stationed at them are not as powerful. In my opinion, it's good at the moment. Believe it or not, the defender is still more powerful when it comes to ranged attacks. I'm happy to admit that nerfing units at the wall level is not the most appealing way of balancing out sieges, but it does do the job. Perhaps it has to do with the teppo being too weak. My unit of teppo on the walls got a total of about 5 kills on a unit of yari ashigaru walking up to the walls. That's not good. It's roughly the same as open battle though so maybe it's more to do with teppo being crap now.

-As for the CAI, there could be a protocol. I'll look into it. I know the AI will completely avoid sieges if they figure they're outgunned (in many cases, not all; CAI is still weird), and that if they do lay siege they may not attack the fortress if they still figure they are a tad outgunned. Perhaps I can influence that somewhere. If possible make the threshold of them feeling outgunned so they're less inclined to siege immediately?

-I'm still looking for the base zeal value. It is elusive. Perhaps I can boost the value via the agent tech tree and essentially turn it into an unlockable ability . You don't have to make the agent effect stronger. You just need to get rid of the +46 "owned by faction" modifier

I'll look, although I figure we would have a mini-mod for it if it were possible. No harm checking . Great!

It would be good to have 3 experience points per level for agents and generals, also the frequency at which you have a proposition to enlist new general could be higher

This. Increased fertility of married daimyos would be nice too

[Akaie]

Fair enough. I still think the yari samurai are too weak (in absolute terms, not just compared to vanilla) but if you disagree it's not something I'm very hung up about
It's all part of the less decisive balancing I'm quite set on. You're probably more of a fan of vanilla unit balancing .

If they're supposed to be roughly equivalent in strength then make them roughly equivalent in cost, flanking units or not. Right now the extra 200 koku isn't worth it.
The costs aren't based solely on a one-on-one fight in narrow circumstances with a specific opponent, but rather what their edge - their charge - can accomplish in a variety of scenarios. The 150 recruitment/13 koku upkeep difference also stand to do a few things like ensure the YA are the most appealing cheap unit available and to account for that notable charge of the KA.

Sounds good. What I'd much prefer is if the boosts were lower but stackable and effective globally - so if you built a couple your whole empire would benefit greatly. If that confuses the AI then perhaps stick with your current idea.
I can't remember if there are building caps. I wouldn't want this to be spammed if it is to be a feature. Depending on how it is implemented, I don't think it will confuse the AI. It certainly won't know how to make good use of them.

Perhaps it has to do with the teppo being too weak. My unit of teppo on the walls got a total of about 5 kills on a unit of yari ashigaru walking up to the walls. That's not good. It's roughly the same as open battle though so maybe it's more to do with teppo being crap now.
It would be a factor. One of the down-sides of this setup is that, as the defender, the game makes bow and teppo units that are defending on the wall feel like crap. I completely agree with you that that crap feeling is, well, crap, but ultimately I feel it's a necessary evil. Vanilla sieges are too yielding to the defender.

You don't have to make the agent effect stronger. You just need to get rid of the +46 "owned by faction" modifier
I'm actually very happy at the rate of conversion. One point is that it helps the AI avoid rebellion, all the while being no less workable throughout the campaign .

If the dairinin are to be able to cripple the spread of an enemy alignment, their zeal will be the way.

[Robin de Bodemloze]

I think you're overdoing the crap feeling of defending the walls...

The +46 conversion factor makes dairinnin completely unable to convert provinces that are not your own

[Akaie]

Yup, which is why noted that their zeal will be the way to deal with that .

[The_Nord]

Hmm the teppo feeling like crap isn't something I necessarily agree with. The way I set up my defenses in a siege battle is to have bows on the lowest tier in the fortress and the teppo on the higher tiers. I have my melee units defending the lower tier, whilst the teppo ashigaru fire down on the enemy locked in melee with my melee troops below. It works fine with me, I've beaten back two/three stacks at once with this kind of set up. Last siege defence my teppo had something like 366 kills, the 3rd or 4th highest I think.

Also about the dairinnin, even if I upgrade their zeal to the highest point (skill tree + retainers) they still can't convert enemy provinces.

[Kambe]

After spending few hours with 0.75 think Katana samurai need a buff in their melee attack. IDK that much about armies of that time, but I think Katana > Naginata > Yari in terms of 1 on 1 and melee attack, if I'm wrong then its prolly fine. IMO Clans need to have tier 1 building from start those who are specialists at some class should have tier 2, also why does Tokugawa start with a fletcher tier encampment? IDK about others but I always use armor upgrades even for range units because there are enough of other buildings to give bonuses to accuracy/charge/morale/cavalry charge. IDK if its my graphical settings but Date blue color kinda looks cartoonish, the vanilla one looked better

[Akaie]

At the very least, the yari and katana units conform to the less decisive battles setup.

A pre-existing tier 1 building in every province is a great idea. It would certainly avoid spamming the Sake Den, provided I keep that particular building where it is.

I gave the Tokugawa the encampment building around the time of the preview, as it wasn't very clear as to what their clan bonuses would be. I can change that to the more appropriate tier 2 gunpowder building .

The Date blue is a very slight tweak from the vanilla Date colours. It is still very much consistent with the common colour combination of Date heraldry .

[Robin de Bodemloze]

The Date blue is a very slight tweak from the vanilla Date colours. It is still very much consistent with the common colour combination of Date heraldry .

It's even more consistent with a certain anime series

It's the Date. They are blue and yellow. The end.

[Akaie]

Shhh! We don't want to be telling people the only reason we made this mod is to make subtle references to the numerous sengoku-based anime.

...whoops.

[madpluck]

ha uhhh that was appallingly obvious from the get-go.

[The_Nord]

Guess you've been found out. Oh well.

(btw AntonIII, did you see my mod proposal in the Compilations and Overhauls sub-forum? I'd like your opinion it, wether it's doable and such)

[Erwin Rommel]

All those other major mods are boring anyway, we want famous names of our sengoku fetishes realized at turn 1. Hence this mod, yes, tis sad that the venerable old guys like Nobunaga to Shingen to Kenshin and maybe we'll include Ujiyasu are gone.