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  1. #1

    Default An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    Report from “League of Arab States Observer Mission to Syria”.


    From December 24 2011 to January 18 2012, a group of “observers” from the Arab nations were in Syria to write a report on the activities of the Syrian army, and its behavior against protestors. Doubts were raised about its objectivity in regard to their connections with Arab nations hostile to the Syrian regime. The irony of authoritarian monarchies demonstrating interest in the human rights of Syrian civilians was an obvious dilemma impacting the legitimacy of the Mission. The report provides an objective glimpse into the situation in Syria where both the military and the armed opposition groups have been participating in violent acts. The report accuses the opposition armed groups of committing terrorist acts and deliberately targeting civilians during the time the Mission was in Syria. In the end, it reveals what I long suspected: an armed uprising where both the Syrian government and opposition forces have participated in violent acts. However, the report clearly places the blame on the opposition for targeting civilians and makes no mention of government forces following in that path.



    The report provides a list of media outlets inside Syria that range from the BBC to Arab television networks. According to the report, only two channels have been denied entry into Syria, Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabiya, because “the government believes to be targeting Syria and its system of government”. The foreign media did criticize the regime for providing them only with four days in the country which they deemed insufficient although the government later increased this number to ten days.


    The Mission noted that some of its members returned home after it became obvious that they had personal or nationalistic bias against an objective report. The Mission did criticize the Syrian regime by trying to restrict access to areas they wished to hide but also the opposition groups from refusing to allow hired drivers to enter their controlled areas because “they believed the drivers were members of the security services”. Both sides exaggerated accounts of cruelty and numbers of detained and killed were hard to verify with the Mission reporting that some names were repeated.


    The main area that the Mission was located was at Homs where opposition and government forces have been fighting and where most crimes against humanity have been thought to have occurred. Concerning Homs, the mission noted that approximately 3,000 armed opposition members had imposed a blockade on parts of pro-government residential areas and had participated in “kidnapping and sabotage of Government and civilian facilities” while the Syrian army had also imposed a blockade in residential areas that were known to support these armed groups. The mission visited these opposition areas and had conversations with opposition citizens who complained about the “the state of fear, blockade and acts of violence to which they had been subjected by Government forces”. It becomes obvious that this is not peaceful demonstrators being targeted by the military but armed groups and can only be described as an armed insurrection or rebellion. This is supported by the Mission’s own experience in which they “witnessed an intense exchange of gunfire between the Army and opposition in Baba Amr”.


    When the Head of the Mission met with the Government, he insisted that “it withdraw military vehicles from the city, put an end to acts of violence, protect civilians, lift the blockade and provide food. He further called for the two sides to exchange the bodies of those killed.” The government accepted these conditions except for three army vehicles that “were not working and had been surrounded, and one that had been taken from the Army by armed groups.” While the Mission held pressure onto the Syrian government, it did not have any pressure on the rebel forces.

    The Acts of Violence and Crimes:


    The observers witnessed acts of violence by government forces and “an exchange of fire with armed elements in Homs and Hama”. They reported that in “Homs and Dera’a, the Mission observed armed groups committing acts of violence against Government forces, resulting in death and injury among their ranks. In certain situations, Government forces responded to attacks against their personnel with force. The observers noted that some of the armed groups were using flares and armour-piercing projectiles.”



    The Mission did not experience any deliberate targeting of civilians by the Syrian military during their stay and it may have been because of their presence. However, it did see armed opposition groups employing terrorist acts. “In Homs, Idlib and Hama; the Observer Mission witnessed acts of violence being committed against Government forces and civilians that resulted in several deaths and injuries. Examples of those acts include bombing of a civilian bus, killing eight persons and injuring others, including women and children, and bombing of a train carrying diesel oil. In another incident in Homs, a police bus was blown up, killing two police officers. A fuel pipeline and some small bridges were also bombed.” However, the Mission admits that the government was caught exaggerating some incidents and others which never happened.



    One incident which received foreign coverage was the death of a French journalist in Homs. The French journalist, Gilles Jacquier, was working with others in a Pro Assad area and was interviewing pro Assad demonstrators when shells began to fall into the demonstrators. The U.S. government was quick to point the finger at Assad but the claim that Assad had ordered the killing of his own supporters remained suspicious. The mission could not fully verify who was responsible but “noted that Mission reports from Homs indicate that the French journalist was killed by opposition mortar shells.”


    Concerning protests, the Mission wrote that “group team leaders witnessed peaceful demonstrations by both Government supporters and the opposition in several places. None of those demonstrations were disrupted, except for some minor clashes with the Mission and between loyalists and opposition.” No military interference occurred though it could be argued that the military was restrained because of the Mission’s whereabouts.



    Although the western media continues to claim that Assad is pursuing a "brutal crackdown" there has been no credible evidence for such claims and rare objective analysis such as the Mission from the GCC has not recorded any civilian targeting from the Syrian military. The West is keen in placing a no fly zone over Syrian airspace with the excuse of protecting civilians, but if objective reports such as this cannot find any pro Assad criminal act, how can it justify such a resolution?



    Source
    Last edited by spanish_emperor; February 07, 2012 at 11:29 PM.
    "we're way way pre-alpha and what that means is there is loads of features not just in terms of the graphics but also in terms of the combat and animations that actually aren't in the game yet.So the final game is actually gonna look way way better than this!” - James Russell, CA
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  2. #2

    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    Last edited by Sphere; February 08, 2012 at 12:01 AM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    "He was ill and bedridden at his Syria hotel. So how could he make those claims?" said the unnamed official.
    How do you know that those claiming Assad was killing his own people weren't exaggerating and bias? How do you know the snipers weren't from the opposition?

    Why would the Mission protect Assad and the Syrian regime?
    "we're way way pre-alpha and what that means is there is loads of features not just in terms of the graphics but also in terms of the combat and animations that actually aren't in the game yet.So the final game is actually gonna look way way better than this!” - James Russell, CA
    Just like the elephant animation, this Carthage scenario is actually in the game, it just has a small percantage factor for showing up, that's all...

    Beware of scoundrels



  4. #4

    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    How do you know that those claiming Assad was killing his own people weren't exaggerating and bias? How do you know the snipers weren't from the opposition?

    Why would the Mission protect Assad and the Syrian regime?
    I don't know all that, but I do know trying to use a two-week old report done by the Arab League Observer Mission to prove the Assad regime is all flowers and honey, and these reports of a crackdown are fabricated, when three days ago the Arab League halted the very same mission because the regime has, and I quote the Secretary General of the Arab league ... ""resorted to escalating the military option in complete violation of (its) commitments." Is a major distortion.

    If you are so willing to put weight behind this Arab League missions opinion two weeks ago, why not now?
    Last edited by Sphere; February 08, 2012 at 12:16 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    Well, i am not trying to prove that Assad's regime is "all flowers and honey". I don't see any side as more virtuous nor do i support any side. TO me they are all morally disingenuous and i am sure that the Syrian military has attacked civilians and would do so even more if it weren't because of the pressure from the international community. But because of the limited resources available to the Free Syrian Army, it employs terror tactics and targets civilians in greater quantities than the Syrian Army.

    I find this report more objective because it criticizes both sides rather than the usual one sided view. I don't find any reason to discount this report, what interests do they have in protecting the Syrian regime? On the other hand, those individuals who departed from the Mission have connections to organizations and governments that have been placing pressure on the Syrian government. Not all Human Rights Organizations are legitimate, some are biased like the Syrian Observatory for human Rights. All you have to do is go to their Facebook and get a glimpse of their propaganda. Every Free Syrian Army casualty is described as a "martyr"... check it for yourself here

    And the Secretary General you quote departed from the Mission before it could be completed. Whether he had a legitimate reason is unknown, but he was not the head of the mission like that article seems to imply. The source i provided in the first post provides that information.


    Once again, i am not supporting the Syrian regime nor implying they are innocent of human rights abuses, but simply demonstrating that it is hard to find a credible source for recording the conflict, and this report seemed to be somewhat objective. If i was wrong then i will take it down, but so far i find no reason to do so. I am naturally suspicious of the western and arab media because, as the link in my signature demonstrates, the Libyan intervention was based on lies and exaggerations...
    "we're way way pre-alpha and what that means is there is loads of features not just in terms of the graphics but also in terms of the combat and animations that actually aren't in the game yet.So the final game is actually gonna look way way better than this!” - James Russell, CA
    Just like the elephant animation, this Carthage scenario is actually in the game, it just has a small percantage factor for showing up, that's all...

    Beware of scoundrels



  6. #6
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    Why did the arab countries just withdraw ambassadors and ask for countries to support a harsher stance in the wake of increased violence?

    I fear someone has an agenda here and it seems to clash with the thoughts of the Arab league.

  7. #7
    The excited one's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    an "objective report" from Syria? i can laugh for a whole day seriously people are being tortured and kill and had their penis (for kids) cut off just saying something about their govt. being objective is just saying that all they do its wrong but we will not criticizer them since the Russians and the Chinese told us so (phew we just had two big customers in our footsteps)
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  8. #8

    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    Quote Originally Posted by The excited one View Post
    an "objective report" from Syria? i can laugh for a whole day seriously people are being tortured and kill and had their penis (for kids) cut off just saying something about their govt. being objective is just saying that all they do its wrong but we will not criticizer them since the Russians and the Chinese told us so (phew we just had two big customers in our footsteps)
    Eh? Have you read the OP? The report was written by Arab and African participants; most neutral to the regime. They criticized the Syrian army as not doing enough in talks with the opposition. Because it is written by neutral parties and were "trained" by the UN, i think it is quite objective.
    Last edited by spanish_emperor; February 08, 2012 at 04:43 AM.
    "we're way way pre-alpha and what that means is there is loads of features not just in terms of the graphics but also in terms of the combat and animations that actually aren't in the game yet.So the final game is actually gonna look way way better than this!” - James Russell, CA
    Just like the elephant animation, this Carthage scenario is actually in the game, it just has a small percantage factor for showing up, that's all...

    Beware of scoundrels



  9. #9
    The excited one's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    Quote Originally Posted by spanish_emperor View Post
    Eh? Have you read the OP? The report was written by Arab and African participants; most neutral to the regime. They criticized the Syrian army as not doing enough in talks with the opposition. Because it is written by neutral parties and were "trained" by the UN, i think it is quite objective.
    business is business there's nothing called objective they can also criticize Syria like some kind of pol pot in Cambodia if the Americans give those poor African and buy more Arab oil but they fail to give any therefore they make a objective non-biased report saying oh yeah they kill someone but we just sit and watch as usual just like we did when Qaddafi v. its people
    Last edited by The excited one; February 08, 2012 at 09:54 PM.
    war is peace, ignorance is strength, freedom is slavery......
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  10. #10
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    From the OP's report and the more updated reports form Sphere's post, i can say most of what the media is reporting is true. Assad's government is still targeting civilians and protests while armed groups are fighting back against government forces.

  11. #11

    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    Quote Originally Posted by Azoth View Post
    From the OP's report and the more updated reports form Sphere's post, i can say most of what the media is reporting is true. Assad's government is still targeting civilians and protests while armed groups are fighting back against government forces.
    ...and civilians are, traditionally, caught in the middle. What, I think, Spanish_emperor is driving at is the current media narrative of heroes and villains which happens to grind my gears too. I have a very uneasy feeling that my human qualities like compassion, empathy etc. are being eroded by my governments constant pulling on collective heart strings to justify geopolitical goals. I find myself unable to sympathise with 'the Syrian people' because that would feel like willingly being duped into supporting another regime change.

  12. #12

    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    There probably is more objective reporting possible in the PRC than Syria. I think we learned from Iraq that what is reported tends to rely very much on the perspective of the observer, both in what he can and is permitted to view, and any agenda he or his superiors have.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  13. #13

    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    It's funny, yesterday I was watching Al-Jazeera Arabic and they were showing film and pictures taken in Syria of artillery shells falling on neighborhoods in Homs and tanks in the streets. I must have been seeing things.

    The only thing this OP is good for is demonstrating just how successful totalitarian regimes can be good at manipulating people.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    It's funny, yesterday I was watching Al-Jazeera Arabic and they were showing film and pictures taken in Syria of artillery shells falling on neighborhoods in Homs and tanks in the streets. I must have been seeing things.

    The only thing this OP is good for is demonstrating just how successful totalitarian regimes can be good at manipulating people.
    I would personally be sceptical about any media coverage of a deeply politically-charged conflict in which everyone seems to have a stake. Not saying you saw outright lies (I personally hold Al-Jazeera in high regard) but any media coverage of the Syrian conflict will, inevitably, present an angle. That is, you were merely offered a glimpse of the conflict shown by one of the sides on it. Don't rely on it absolutely in forming opinions, would be my advice.

  15. #15
    Primo's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    The only thing this OP is good for is demonstrating just how successful totalitarian regimes can be good at manipulating people.
    I fail to see where there is a difference between a totalitarian regime and a democracy when it comes to manipulating people.

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    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare Moon View Post
    I fail to see where there is a difference between a totalitarian regime and a democracy when it comes to manipulating people.
    You've clearly never lived under a restricted press.
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    Primo's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    Quote Originally Posted by Trey View Post
    You've clearly never lived under a restricted press.
    No. Where I live it is just not the state manipulating, it is the press. So the enactor of the manipulation is changed, but not manipulation itself. And since the DDR isn´t that long gone, I do know many people who lived under a restricted press. I think I can say that there is no major difference between manipulation under a totalitarian regime and a democracy. The interesting question is:
    Have you lived under a restricted press?

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    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare Moon View Post
    No. Where I live it is just not the state manipulating, it is the press. So the enactor of the manipulation is changed, but not manipulation itself. And since the DDR isn´t that long gone, I do know many people who lived under a restricted press. I think I can say that there is no major difference between manipulation under a totalitarian regime and a democracy. The interesting question is:
    Have you lived under a restricted press?
    You live in Germany right? You do realize Germany has some of the freest press in the world? That's its not that restricted at all?

  19. #19

    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    It's funny, yesterday I was watching Al-Jazeera Arabic and they were showing film and pictures taken in Syria of artillery shells falling on neighborhoods in Homs and tanks in the streets. I must have been seeing things.

    The only thing this OP is good for is demonstrating just how successful totalitarian regimes can be good at manipulating people.
    You know what they say, there is no cure for denial
    "we're way way pre-alpha and what that means is there is loads of features not just in terms of the graphics but also in terms of the combat and animations that actually aren't in the game yet.So the final game is actually gonna look way way better than this!” - James Russell, CA
    Just like the elephant animation, this Carthage scenario is actually in the game, it just has a small percantage factor for showing up, that's all...

    Beware of scoundrels



  20. #20
    Prosaic Visitant's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: An objective report into the Syrian uprisings

    Quote Originally Posted by spanish_emperor View Post
    You know what they say, there is no cure for denial
    Or for conspiracies.

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