Pahlava game: government and units

**Boriak** · February 05, 2012, 10:52 AM

I decided to start playing my old Pahlava campaign. After a rather long pause, EB is interesting again, particularly the horse-archer campaigns. I continued my invasion into Seleucid lands and reached Persis itself. It's 254 BC now and I have two cities working on Pahlava Reformed Government so that means I read the Pahlava guide right.

I'm also working on development of my northern provinces (Nisa and Khiva, I believe) of which one was preset to Pastoralism. After building pretty much all available buildings, I can train only four different cavalry units in those two provinces. The Recruitment Viewer promises a whole bunch of units available in those provinces. Did I do something wrong?

What is Large Settled Community good for? Settled Community is a key step in reaching Reformed Government but is Large SC also important? Or is that just for different size cities?

Also, Pahlava's victory conditions dictate conquest of the Indian provinces. What do people usually do for government in India? What about Asia Minor, since those provinces are not included in the Persian Reforms system?

**Casual Tactician** · February 05, 2012, 11:24 AM

I've not read this Pahlava reform guide myself, but perhaps it'll come in handy.

**Menestheus** · February 05, 2012, 01:45 PM

There is a very specific build order required to attain a level 1 Government for Parthian homeland settlements (follow the reform guide very carefully and ensure the settlement you are trying to develop is part of their homeland territories) but I recommend trying to attain one of these in one city specifically as soon as possible as they enable you to recruit your finest units (eg. Parthian Late Cataphracts who are absolutely godly). In the meantime I found the best way to keep the Seleukids at bay when you are in the early game and struggling financially is to use skirmishing tactics. Split your nomadic horse archer's into attack groups of 3-4 units and roam your borders with 3 of these groups if possible. When a Seleukid stack heads your way, use one group to attack them and on the battle map simply fire off your arrows at specific targets until they are all spent and then withdraw. Rinse and repeat with the other groups. This should enable you to whittle down larger attacking forces before they reach your settlements and allow you to inflict maximum damage using minimum troop numbers and taking minimum losses. In the meantime, do your best to maintain good diplomatic relations with Baktria, Saka and the Sauromatae as you do not need another enemy on your borders while you push back the Seleukids, who will be your main worry at the start of your campaign. I was able to capture Babylon and Seleukia whilst still being allies with all 3 aforementioned civ's enabling me to focus all my military power against the Grey Death.

Dahae Riders are a good choice of unit early on as they have a fairly solid charge bonus if you need to engage after spending all your arrows.

**Menestheus** · February 05, 2012, 02:07 PM

Oh yeah I forgot, I was unable to get Reformed Gov't in either Nisa or Khiva. Even tried using the script to put all the buildings together in one turn to test it and it doesn't come up as an option. I'd just go with Nomadism in those particular settlements and save yourself the hassle.

**athanaric** · February 05, 2012, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Boriak

I'm also working on development of my northern provinces (Nisa and Khiva, I believe) of which one was preset to Pastoralism. After building pretty much all available buildings, I can train only four different cavalry units in those two provinces. The Recruitment Viewer promises a whole bunch of units available in those provinces. Did I do something wrong?

Pastoralism doesn't allow for tribal horsemen, which means you'll have to stick to noble cavalry types. In return, you get spearmen and a better infrastructure, compared to Nomadism.

What is Large Settled Community good for?

Recruiting spearmen in Pastoralist communities. Also, in Scythian provinces, axemen.

Settled Community is a key step in reaching Reformed Government but is Large SC also important?

No.

Or is that just for different size cities?

No. If you want a reformed government, just build the tier 1 "settled community" and move on to the reforms. Likewise with the horse herds institution (elite herds -> tier 1 horse herds -> settled aristocracy).

Also, Pahlava's victory conditions dictate conquest of the Indian provinces. What do people usually do for government in India?

Let Baktria take those settlements and tech them up, and then take them back and install Type IV government. Those regional MICs are important in India.

What about Asia Minor, since those provinces are not included in the Persian Reforms system?

By the time you get there, the AS or some other faction will usually have invested into infrastructure and economy buildings there. Otherwise see above.

Originally Posted by Menestheus

Oh yeah I forgot, I was unable to get Reformed Gov't in either Nisa or Khiva. Even tried using the script to put all the buildings together in one turn to test it and it doesn't come up as an option. I'd just go with Nomadism in those particular settlements and save yourself the hassle.

Yeah you can't build the reformed government there (makes sense, given the history and nature of these provinces). Nor in Margiana or Baktria, which is a bit strange IMO, though.

**Boriak** · February 06, 2012, 05:16 AM

Thank you, athanaric. The others didn't seem to read my inquiry thoroughly enough to give me any new information.

Up north, Seleucids are still holding on to Marakanda. Because of this, I don't have to worry about Saka so I left it in Seleucids hands. I'm allied with Baktria who are taking the Saka head on. Baktria just took a province from the Saka and that kind of scares me since Saka use the same tactics as I do. Baktria uses loads of phalanxes and I doubt my archers would be able to go up against them. Time to train some infantry, I guess.

I thought about leaving India for Baktria before. After seeing the defence of Indian provinces, I thought I would wait for Baktria to make a few failed attempts to take them, bringing down their strength so I could take a whack at them. But for the moment, Baktria isn't interested in India as they are concentrating on the Saka. So those Eleutheroi provinces are just sitting there.

Right now, I'm concentrating on developing my conquered provinces but at the same time preparing a push against Ektabana, Susa and Charax. I can take them, the question is can I hold them. At least Ektabana is a Large city and even if I decide to exterminate it, my levies aren't the best for garrison duty. Also, Babylon and Seleukeia are just around the corner and if Seleucids want them back, I doubt I will be able to stop them with my horse-archer five-unit stacks. Even if I hire some mercenary phalanxes, through attrition they will defeat me.

How fast do people usually go after the western part of Seleucid lands with Pahlava? I thought about waiting for a bit so I don't achieve victory conditions before 200 BC.

**athanaric** · February 06, 2012, 09:31 AM

If Baktria is too incompetent to take the Indian provinces, take them yourself. They have rich mines and offer excellent auxiliaries for your armies, most importantly siege troops (Sreni Pattya Yoddaha - keep them away from javelins though) and elephants. Also Indohellenic Peltasts, who are great multipurpose troops and elephant killers. And so on.
Your infantry fighting force should be based on a core of Persian Hoplites, Parthohellenikoi Thureophoroi, Panda phalanx (those three units look very nice together), Hyrkanian Hillmen and Heavy Persian Archers. These are all dependable medium infantry. In fact, Hyrkanians are very similar to Drapanai (in case you have some exerience with Getai). Also, all light Iranian units are very useful, if you utilize them properly. Especially those light axemen. They are more specialized than the medium dudes though and need more micro lest they be in the wrong place at the wrong time and get routed.

Here's a nice overview:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Originally Posted by athanaric

Pahlava is one of only two factions with no factional elite/heavily armoured infantry. Nevertheless, there are some reliable medium units that can be trusted with the main infantry tasks:

- Persian Hoplites are fairly durable and make good defensive troops (they also have decent swords for wall fights). -> defensive/balanced, good vs cavalry
- Parthian-Hellenic infantry are decent as well, especially against light infantry types. -> offensive/balanced, good vs light and medium infantry
- Hyrkanian Hillmen have very good morale and anti-armour capabilities, but they should never be exposed to missiles. -> offensive, good vs heavy infantry or heavy cavalry
- Heavy Persian Archers are great for missile duels and a generally more "Achaemenid" approach to warfare (combined with Parthian Spearmen and various hillmen units). They're also more durable in melee than light archers, but not really good at it either.

Your initial infantry will be

- Archer-Spearmen who are very popular for their versatility,
- Persian Archers who're important for defensive purposes,
- Eastern Slingers who're important for tackling heavy missile units and phalanxes,
- Parthian Spearmen who are surprisingly useful defensive infantry,
- Eastern Axemen (Tabargâne Erânshahr) and Kappadokian Hillmen (Katpatuka Zanteush) are very versatile light anti-armour troops who're instrumental in defeating phalanxes.

Among the foreign troops, the

- Indian Guild Warriors really shine as superior assault units. They should be deployed against enemy elite forces such as Hypaspists or Argyraspides, who are too dangerous for your cavalry to tackle.
- Indian Longbowmen are inferior in terms of archery to your Persian units, but have an evil sidearm that essentially makes them the "poor man's Guild Warriors".
- Indian Spearmen make good garrison units in and around India.
- Indo-Hellenic Skirmishers are very dangerous to light cavalry or elephants and are basically a must have - also they actually have decent armour.
- Baktrian Hillmen are very versatile skirmishers with armour-piercing axes. Very useful against elephants.
- Arabian Slingers are an inferior version of your Persian/Greek slingers.
- Arabian Light Infantry is very useful though.
- Sabaean Archers make decent garrison troops.

Any Greek unit bearing the name of "Hoplite" is of course a great defensive unit. Even when playing Pahlava, you can build a decent and well-rounded infantry army with Greek units (Hoplites, slingers, Peltasts, Thureophoroi, ...) alone.

**Boriak** · February 06, 2012, 10:17 AM

I think I will develop mines in my current provinces. Most of Iran has mines; the place is starting to look a lot like Iberia.

Meanwhile, I will have time to work on my Barracks.

Pahlava is one great campaign. I missed the constructing.

**Boriak** · February 08, 2012, 09:08 AM

Ok, I figured it out why I was looking for too many units. The Recruitment Viewer states one unit of horse-archers across various military complexes. Stupid mistake on my part.

**the persian Immortal** · February 17, 2012, 04:27 AM

boriak now that u have started playing eb r u going to continue ur AAR ?

**Boriak** · February 17, 2012, 05:34 AM

I don't think so. I have way too much work with my original fiction projects and since I'm finally getting a serious job I will have even less time. I wish I had time for it but the truth is I don't. Plus it's been so long since I've been writing it I'm not sure I could get back into it.