[Hotseat] The requested hotseat

[lh197]

Sorry but I'm out. I don't like to quit but it's just too dickish, completely exploits the rule and is, in my opinion, more of an aggressive act than blockading one of my ports would have been. And the Starks are all heading up North too. Just seems like too much of a foregone conclusion, might not be cheating technically but it is in my book.

[luke1608]

Can you do nothing?

[lh197]

took a snap of it on my phone since I can't screenshot, sorry for the quality but you can see what I mean at least:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As you can seen I'm just going to have to let him take them, and he can quite easily build a fort at the bridge Jaime is on before he attacks Pinkmaiden.

[Skizbot]

From what I've seen, building forts in the Riverlands is the common opening move for both factions. The river crossings are the only natural boundaries the Riverlands has in this game, otherwise its indefensible. The Lannisters build forts on one side, the Tullys build them on the other . Its not like you can't just siege the forts, factions aren't destroyed in one or two turns. But Tully is definitely a challenge, its no coincidence that it always seem to be one of the last 2 factions picked.

[Dido]

Intruding on other peoples lands with your armies are generally looked upon as declerations of war and therefore also breaking of the peace. This is whats shown on the picture above and is in my opinion a breaking of the rules set by the admin of 1 turn peace.

[lh197]

I can siege the forts yes, by which time he will have already taken two settlements. A challenge is fine but it's just a stupidly cheap way of exploiting the rule when I can't attack

[Skizbot]

You can take the settlements back. People have come back from much worse than losing 2 cities.

Intruding on other peoples lands with your armies are generally looked upon as declerations of war and therefore also breaking of the peace. This is whats shown on the picture above and is in my opinion a breaking of the rules set by the admin of 1 turn peace.

Declaration of war? They're already at war. There is no peace to break, the rule is just no hostile actions. Putting up stones next to a river is not a hostile action.

I've only been in a few hotseats where I'm near the Riverlands, but in all of those cases I saw Lannister and Tully each building forts on either side of bridges/river crossings. Its the only smart move.

[Dido]

You can take the settlements back. People have come back from much worse than losing 2 cities.



Declaration of war? They're already at war. There is no peace to break, the rule is just no hostile actions. Putting up stones next to a river is not a hostile action.

Ok lets say that you live in France on the border to Germany and one day the german army suddenly comes into your town and block all the roads leading in and out of the town. How would the french government take it? As an act of friendship or and act of hostility?

[Skizbot]

Dido, they're already at war. They start hostile, with tons of Lannister armies in the Riverlands. If he hadn't built forts, he would have been moving armies toward Tully cities. Both would be acts of war, but neither one attacks Tully armies, cities, ports, or even trade, so I don't see how it breaks any rules.

Its up to Luke how he wants to interpret it, but banning the building of forts on turn 1 is not something I've ever seen even considered in other hotseats.

Actually, the rules in this one don't even say "no turn 1 hostile actions", they say, "1 turn peace". Lannister and Tully start at war already, but if they hadn't, building a fort would not break peace between 2 factions.

[luke1608]

Can you not make forts in response blocking him?

[luke1608]

Plus you could probably kill Jamie with Riverrun and Pinkmaidens forces combined

[Pinkie Pie]

Surrounding two of his settlements with forts would cost a lot of money.

[luke1608]

I can't see a way you realistically could, try negotiating with the Starks? Or straight up surrender to the Lannisters now and work with them before stabbing them in the back as revenge?

[Dido]

I know they`re at war.
I`m just pointing out that I see this as a rule breaking because the rule states there is peace the first turn. Starting a blockade and moving troops about the other players territory is something one does in war and not in peace.
Its up to the admin to decide though.

[Dido]

blockade and moving troops about the other players territory

In their own territory yes.

[Skizbot]

I'm pretty sure people move armies and build forts during peace.

[Skizbot]

Maybe thats your preference, bit thats not a rule. I've built forts in other peoples territory plenty of times. In fact I already did it this game.

[lh197]

surrendering to the Lannisters. I'll play but it's still against my interpretation of the rules. And I hope he doesn't expect any buildings to be around in either of those settlements.
And Skizbot I sort of get your point but his moves aren't for defensive reasons at all, which is what I'd find acceptable, they're entirely for going on the offensive, building a fort in throwing distance of my capital is definitely an attack to me.

[Dido]

Anyways can the admin make a decision in this so that we can continue the hotseat?

[luke1608]

I'll let it stand, it'll be a really poor precedent to set and easily abusable. However it's a dick move, so I'll let destroying building stand as well.