My new Komnenian/Khwaraz Unit Roster

[Andytheplatypus]

Holy Caudillo87 very impressive work. + rep

[xXEsotericXx]

These skins are beautiful!

[smoofy42]

I just wanted to say that I love this mod! Also, I was wondering if there was any chance this would be made to be compatible with SSMAP?

[Caudillo87]

I just wanted to say that I love this mod! Also, I was wondering if there was any chance this would be made to be compatible with SSMAP?

Glad you enjoy them, and as for SSMAP, you will have to ask them as I am not part of that project. Cheers!

[Ichon]

I just wanted to say that I love this mod! Also, I was wondering if there was any chance this would be made to be compatible with SSMAP?

I was actually considering that right now but I don't know for sure if or which version some or all of the units would make it in. I would like to include some of these but FP and Ravenant have some say and also I have no idea when we will have time to do that.

Caudillo87 already was kind enough to make it available to the community so I am sure they will show up in some submods eventually.

[Lifthrasir]

I was actually considering that right now but I don't know for sure if or which version some or all of the units would make it in. I would like to include some of these but FP and Ravenant have some say and also I have no idea when we will have time to do that.

Caudillo87 already was kind enough to make it available to the community so I am sure they will show up in some submods eventually.

Hope FP and Ravenant will accept even if it isn't for now. That would give some variety of ERE unit roster.

[Aguirre]

hi there! wanted to try this out because I find them units stunning! I reinstalled a fresh 6.3(not 6.4), replaced the data folder and started the game. nothing happened, the romans are the same... what went wrong?

[Caudillo87]

hi there! wanted to try this out because I find them units stunning! I reinstalled a fresh 6.3(not 6.4), replaced the data folder and started the game. nothing happened, the romans are the same... what went wrong?

It has to be 6.4

[Aguirre]

ah, thought it was the other way around. thanks!
works now and they're great looking! really authentic. A little bit more diversity would'nt harm the stunning emperors guard though, but thats nothing. and unitcards, are they coming? +rep

[Caudillo87]

ah, thought it was the other way around. thanks!
works now and they're great looking! really authentic. A little bit more diversity would'nt harm the stunning emperors guard though, but thats nothing. and unitcards, are they coming? +rep

Exellent! Some criticism, I love it, what kind of diversity do you mean? Armor, color, skins, accs? What do you think should be added to make it better? I am all ears.

[Aguirre]

Weell, I like that the emperors guard wear uniform in terms of shield and armor, but maybe som mixed faces and small bags in their belts, stuff like that. Im in a hurry for work so I cant look for myself, but maybe the Scoutotai suffer the same thing? they could imo wear a variation of armors and helmets, faces and equipment. the pikemen though are imo beyond perfect! gah!

[Mephisto-X]

Weell, I like that the emperors guard wear uniform in terms of shield and armor, but maybe som mixed faces and small bags in their belts, stuff like that. Im in a hurry for work so I cant look for myself, but maybe the Scoutotai suffer the same thing? they could imo wear a variation of armors and helmets, faces and equipment. the pikemen though are imo beyond perfect! gah!

I would take care with big variation of units in one squad. Different faces - yes, would be great. But Soldiers with different armors in one squad is historical a sight of a less professional army - like the barbarians at the time of the roman empire. The (elite)units of the romans on their part looked VERY similar - especially the armors and helmets. So in my opinion the emperors guard is quite perfect.

PS @Caudillo87: Are you still working on the kwarezm / persian unit rooster?

[Caudillo87]

I would take care with big variation of units in one squad. Different faces - yes, would be great. But Soldiers with different armors in one squad is historical a sight of a less professional army - like the barbarians at the time of the roman empire. The (elite)units of the romans on their part looked VERY similar - especially the armors and helmets. So in my opinion the emperors guard is quite perfect.

PS @Caudillo87: Are you still working on the kwarezm / persian unit rooster?

It's done and it's in the khwaraz unit folder, can't add them all because of the unit limit.

[Mephisto-X]

It's done and it's in the khwaraz unit folder, can't add them all because of the unit limit.

I'm not a modder, so my questions are maybe quit stupid:
You can't replace existing units / add new units because there is a unit limit? Could you solve that problem if you delete some merc-units or a whole faction like aragon, norway or cumans? 'Cause I would love to see more of your units in the game - units like in post #147

[Caudillo87]

I'm not a modder, so my questions are maybe quit stupid:
You can't replace existing units / add new units because there is a unit limit? Could you solve that problem if you delete some merc-units or a whole faction like aragon, norway or cumans? 'Cause I would love to see more of your units in the game - units like in post #147

Yes that would Be the only way, of which would take a lot of time because you would have to change a lot of files. And post #147 has nothing to do with SS 6.4, they are units I am making in my own mod.

[Geoffrey of Villehardouin]

Very nice units. I've only recently discovered them. If I may make a couple of suggestions, having not yet downloaded this mod – as I have not installed SS6.4 yet and have no time for a new campaign.

The text on the labaron is in modern Greek. Perhaps you could use the Byzantine ΤΟΥΤΩ ΝΙΚΑ

Leo’s Strategikon recommends that the shields of every regiment should be of a uniform colour. As a regiment of about 1000 men is a realistic number for an average Total War battle, I should think that the majority of infantry units should have a common theme for their shields.

Spears were of three kinds. Standard issue for infantrymen were long spears, long enough for 4 rows to protrude ahead of the phalanx formation. This has been estimated to between 3.9 and 6 meters (Timothy Dawson, ‘Fit for the task’: equipment sizes and the transmission of military lore, sixth to tenth centuries. Byzantine and Modern Greek Studies Vol. 31 No. 1 (2007) 1–12). I am not aware that military manuals have survived from the later periods so, unless there is some new evidence, I should think these estimates are the best we have. A length of 3.9m would just work for ranks 0.64 cm apart but M2TW closed ranks seem further apart and probably longer spears would be required. There were also non-standard short spears of length estimated to 2.5-3.1 meters minimum. Not clear who these were issued to, I imagine they may have been for garrisons, not intended to fight in phalanx formations. Indeed garrison spearmen were recommended to be issued during sieges with up to 10 spears (not javelins), which were therefore unlikely to be long. From the screenshots I could not see any long spears other than maybe for the cavalry. I know Stainless Steel at least up to SS6.3 also only use short spears for the ERE spearmen but maybe this should be corrected. CBUR Contaratoi in Chivalry II - the Sicilian Vespers correctly have long spears.

The third type of spear is the menavlon, which according to Wikipedia and the above article and the most likely interpretation of the military manuals was a short pike, planted to the ground by a single row of menavlatoi - either in front of the phalanx or if need be to protect aggressive Byzantine skirmishers from cavalry charges or to bridge gaps in the phalanx formations left for cavalry to go in and out. I do not doubt the battle AI would be unable to use the Menavlatoi correctly in any of these three roles but this is not going to be the biggest worry about the battle AI.The menavlon existed at least since the 10th C and it is mentioned by Leo the Wise (8th C).

The Emperor’s guard, if I understand it correctly, was a small unit of some 1000 men, one third Byzantine, one third non-Byzantine Christian (presumably the Varangian Guard) and one third asiatic archers. Maybe there should be restricted recruitment, deployment and retraining of these special elite units.

The two front rows of horsemen were recommended to have the heads, necks and sternum of their horses protected with armour. This would practically mean that heavy lancers should all have this horse armour, so that they could be placed in two rows in front of lighter horsemen.

Good luck with the Khwarezmians. A tough task.

[Caudillo87]

Very nice units. I've only recently discovered them. If I may make a couple of suggestions, having not yet downloaded this mod – as I have not installed SS6.4 yet and have no time for a new campaign.

The text on the labaron is in modern Greek. Perhaps you could use the Byzantine ΤΟΥΤΩ ΝΙΚΑ

Leo’s Strategikon recommends that the shields of every regiment should be of a uniform colour. As a regiment of about 1000 men is a realistic number for an average Total War battle, I should think that the majority of infantry units should have a common theme for their shields.

Spears were of three kinds. Standard issue for infantrymen were long spears, long enough for 4 rows to protrude ahead of the phalanx formation. This has been estimated to between 3.9 and 6 meters (Timothy Dawson, ‘Fit for the task’: equipment sizes and the transmission of military lore, sixth to tenth centuries. Byzantine and Modern Greek Studies Vol. 31 No. 1 (2007) 1–12). I am not aware that military manuals have survived from the later periods so, unless there is some new evidence, I should think these estimates are the best we have. A length of 3.9m would just work for ranks 0.64 cm apart but M2TW closed ranks seem further apart and probably longer spears would be required. There were also non-standard short spears of length estimated to 2.5-3.1 meters minimum. Not clear who these were issued to, I imagine they may have been for garrisons, not intended to fight in phalanx formations. Indeed garrison spearmen were recommended to be issued during sieges with up to 10 spears (not javelins), which were therefore unlikely to be long. From the screenshots I could not see any long spears other than maybe for the cavalry. I know Stainless Steel at least up to SS6.3 also only use short spears for the ERE spearmen but maybe this should be corrected. CBUR Contaratoi in Chivalry II - the Sicilian Vespers correctly have long spears.

The third type of spear is the menavlon, which according to Wikipedia and the above article and the most likely interpretation of the military manuals was a short pike, planted to the ground by a single row of menavlatoi - either in front of the phalanx or if need be to protect aggressive Byzantine skirmishers from cavalry charges or to bridge gaps in the phalanx formations left for cavalry to go in and out. I do not doubt the battle AI would be unable to use the Menavlatoi correctly in any of these three roles but this is not going to be the biggest worry about the battle AI.The menavlon existed at least since the 10th C and it is mentioned by Leo the Wise (8th C).

The Emperor’s guard, if I understand it correctly, was a small unit of some 1000 men, one third Byzantine, one third non-Byzantine Christian (presumably the Varangian Guard) and one third asiatic archers. Maybe there should be restricted recruitment, deployment and retraining of these special elite units.

The two front rows of horsemen were recommended to have the heads, necks and sternum of their horses protected with armour. This would practically mean that heavy lancers should all have this horse armour, so that they could be placed in two rows in front of lighter horsemen.

Good luck with the Khwarezmians. A tough task.

Thank you very much for your suggestions. I will fix the banner to use Byzantine Greek but as for the rest its not my call. I just fixed the "look" of the units not how they are made to fight and I only updated whatever the CBUR Team made, I did not add or removed. But your suggestions are absolutely correct and I would love to make an accurate roster but I am limited by the game engine of which modding would be illegal. Enjoy the units when you are able to download.

[Perun74]

Mephisto-X
Thank you
+1

[Perun74]

Mephisto-X
I found another solution. I just took en_lmail_hmail_teutonic_order_normal.texture file from DLV and put him in SS.

[Kaveh]

Very nice,good to see some improvements to some of the Persian Units!