How does 1 mumakil unit kill 1000 gondorians + 10 general units

[Spits32]

but when I auto-calc I only lose 45 and win the battle. I must be a terrible commander.

[Nemesis_GR]

pelargir marines.

[Spits32]

thx mate

[Legourou]

Anytime I see a mumakil, I just auto calc...

It's a terrible tactic... but "what can men do against such reckless hate?"

I find Pelargir Marines to be the only tactic to do, but it's much too troublesome. Firstly, there's only one place to retrain them or get them. Secondly, their numbers wear down considerably marching around Harad. Thirdly, when you finally run into some Mumakil units, you better be prepared to sacrifice a lot of men to either keep the Oliphaunts from running around while the marines make it rain, or try your hand at the old fire and retreat. But the former is a better tactic considering the oliphaunts take three steps and they're across the map, so trying to outrun them is pointless. Fire arrows don't work: their morale is locked I believe. Spearmen seem to catch a bad case of being smushed. The only solution is AP units and I don't mean attack power but armor penetration. I don't understand the mechanics behind why AP units work so well, or how much of an advantage they give, but it's the only viable option for a clean head to head role play battle.

Or, if you want it easier, try and get them stuck on the scenery or the edges of the map where they don't move. Their archers run out of arrows quickly and just sit there leaving you a good 5 minutes of hitting them on 6x speed until they die. Or just auto resolve.

The choice is hard for a role player like me.

[brapollo]

It's been said many times before but mumakils are very easy to kill with artillery. Target them first of course as soon as they are in range. The marines are only necessary for hunting them in cities.

So easy, in fact, that in my current game playing as Harad, I don't even bother using them as I know they will easily die against any ai stack with a couple units of artillery.

[cezarip]

It's been said many times before but mumakils are very easy to kill with artillery. Target them first of course as soon as they are in range. The marines are only necessary for hunting them in cities.

Yeah, lot of people're saying that. I've never seen it done. For them Trolls or Olog-Hai I have the same problem and only one solution: lots and lots of axmen. Ballistas never seem to kill one. Maybe catapults but they are sooo imprecise.

[Space Voyager]

Yeah, lot of people're saying that. I've never seen it done.

I've done it quite some times. There is no guarantee though as you may not have enough luck. But all in all they can be beaten.

It is better when you are attacking, this way they wait for your approach and you usually have the time to get them into panic before the actual battle even begins. Than you have bridges where they are nicely concentrated, making a good recipe for trampling whole armies in a very short time. Even catching them in towns is a good call. If they sally, they are nicely packed again, if they don't, you can haul siege eq. close enough to do the job. I've hauled catapults into enemy cities to have the Mumakil incinerated in the town square.

Without siege equipment you need javelins. If you are playing as an Elf, you have no javelins, so siege equipment it is.

[nein]

artillery is the key, as mentioned before. At that point in the game you should lug a few pieces around with you in case of sudden elephant attack

[Legourou]

Artillery has it's price, though. For starts (and a big negative for me) is your troop movement is next to sluggish. This is a huge problem of being out maneuvered even by the "dumb" ai.

Secondly, it's cost. If you're playing vanilla, it shouldn't be too big of a problem. Seeing as how you can successfully take out Harad before they even are able to build Mumakil. But, if you're like me, you play with Baron's mod. And if you're also like me, it seems to bring a more balanced game play (for myself) to play with total recruitment which means they can pump out Mumakil extremely early. If you do those things, the extra tiers of buildings, then the actual building of the artillery and dragging them around making turns to go places take longer (which increases the amount of upkeep you are using at an exponential rate) can REALLY dampen your economy. Especially since it's so early in the game.

The third problem arises with it's usefulness. I find I can use soldiers to make up for any lack the artillery has. Except when it comes to Mumakil and maybe large groups of trolls. But, why drag artillery around Haronder and Harad to only encounter a few Mumakil when your army will meet many more soldiers than the former? Logistically, it seems better to use those extra slots for troops instead.

Granted I bet you're glad you brought it when you finally face them.

Hmmm...

You know, it might be a good tactic to try your hardest to not even fight them. Travel with spies to look at armies and avoid armies with Mumakil in them. Not only do you not suffer great losses, but the mounting cost of maintaining many Mumakil units will mean less troops you have to fight. Though... now that I think about it, are there any penalties for being bankrupt? Do your soldiers abandon? Idk. I've never been in the red long enough to find out.

EDIT: Just had another idea! What about a large number of Gondor archers or Ithillien Rangers? Not for their arrows but for their stakes? Do they get damaged running at the stakes? Try to have enough to encompass the front liens of your army and play a more defensive role (luring them to you) and if they actually work, that might be another viable option.

[TcMt]

Dont fight in open areas *cough* Let them attack your settlements, mumakils are useless there. And if you have ballista towers its even better.

By the time you fight them directly you should be able to recruit enough spearmen. Concentrate on the other troops of the enemy and when the mumakils are done shooting and go melee block them with your spearmen, charge from behind with the cavalry and pray. If needed: fire arrows too. And like said, a ballista is also usefull.

[Captain Zoran]

Dont fight in open areas *cough* Let them attack your settlements, mumakils are useless there. And if you have ballista towers its even better.

By the time you fight them directly you should be able to recruit enough spearmen. Concentrate on the other troops of the enemy and when the mumakils are done shooting and go melee block them with your spearmen, charge from behind with the cavalry and pray. If needed: fire arrows too. And like said, a ballista is also usefull.

+ Pelagir marines, and this is exactly the same tactic I use. Has never let me down.

Also, when facing Mumakils and you have archers in your army, have them switch to fire arrows. Yes they don't do much damage in the first volley against the Mumakil, and fire means slower reload. HOWEVER, as tests have shown, fire arrows seems to have an AP effect weaker but similar to javelins. Especially on close range. So they might not do much damage short term, but keep blasting away, cavalry charge, pepper with javelins and those big fluffy bastard monsters will go down.

[Ngugi]

And like said, a ballista is also usefull.

Oliphant On a Stick - favourit at gondorian barbecues

[lolIsuck]

EDIT: Just had another idea! What about a large number of Gondor archers or Ithillien Rangers? Not for their arrows but for their stakes? Do they get damaged running at the stakes? Try to have enough to encompass the front liens of your army and play a more defensive role (luring them to you) and if they actually work, that might be another viable option.

Doesn't work, they just walk through the stakes and the stakes dissapear, the archers also aren't very good at taking mumaks down

@whoever said Elves needed artillery, AP archers

[Ekaddon]

Use the terrain to your advantage. Its not only there for the looks.

If you manage to separate the enemy you will defeat anything with inferior troops. Using terrain I almost every time manage to separate a Mumakil unit so that they spread out on a wide area, therefore only one, at most two will hit any of my units at once. Also when separating your army the AI is unable to use the Mumakil to full advantage and often they will do unecessary turns etc. that will reduce their speed. All this spare time can then be used to pour arrows into them. This for vanilla, not AI mods.

[Dwarven Berserker]

Doesn't work, they just walk through the stakes and the stakes dissapear, the archers also aren't very good at taking mumaks down

@whoever said Elves needed artillery, AP archers

I don't believe elves have any ranged unit with AP

But one unit of mumakil killing 1000 gondorians sound quite improbable to me.
One unit of fountain guard can go toe-to-toe with one unit of mumaks, so I'd soppose 2 units of decent infantry should be able to kill them off.
Just don't try to kill them with archers, it will fail. Even elven archers will take ages before they manage to kill a mumak.
Besides that, as stated above, your best options are artillery and pelargir marines.

[lolIsuck]

I don't believe elves have any ranged unit with AP

They sure as hell do in my game

[Dwarven Berserker]

They sure as hell do in my game

Sounds like someone's been messing around with the EDU

[Mhaedros]

lolIsuck's a lil' cheater aint he?

[lolIsuck]

I also made them more expensive so I don't see a problem. They should be super awesome and it bothered me that my archers got raped by bloody spiders. It's also pretty unrealistic that 10 trolls are able run through volley after volley of a 1000 Elven arrows.

[Santeri]

It's said that troll skin is like elephant skin and elephant skin can hardly be penetrated by arrows