Removing war criminals from Yasukuni-Would it be enough?

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Excerpts from this story HERE .

Currently, a lot of tension exists between Japan and its neighbours due to Prime Ministier Koizimi's visits to Yasukuni shrine. For those of you who don't know, Yasukuni was created after the Russian-Japanese war of the early 20th century to honour Japan's war dead (OK I searched and iw was actually founded in June 1869). Now unfortunatly, after WW2, many war-criminals (as deemed by the Allied court) were also interned at this site. Herein lies the problem. Many Asian countries feel, rightfully so, that the Japanese PM should not be visiting a shrine housing these people. However, some things may be changing within the Japanese government:

A former prime minister who could wield significant influence in the election for the nation's next leader suggested Sunday that the winner should not visit Yasukuni Shrine.

"If improving the present relations (between Japan and China) is important, then it would be better not to visit," Yoshiro Mori said on a TV Asahi program.

This quote is from ex-PM Mori, who still holds a great deal of political clout. However, I want to focus on the next statement:

Mori also touched upon calls from within the LDP to separate the 14 Class-A war criminals memorialized at Yasukuni along with Japan's war dead. The existence of the war criminals at Yasukuni is behind the virulent criticism by China and South Korea over Koizumi's repeated visits to the shrine in Tokyo.

"Yasukuni officials should think and decide what to do if (the memorialization of the Class-A war criminals) is hurting national interests," Mori said.

Do you think that it would be alright for the PM of Japan to visit Yasukuni, if the class-A war criminals were "purged" from the site? Personally, I think that this would be the ideal solution, allowing Japanese politicans to pay thier respects for the common soldiers of Japan, while also removing the political fire storm that currently result from these visits.

[RusskiSoldat]

I'm guessing said war criminals are heroes to the Japanese.
Am I right?

[Wild Bill Kelso]

I'm guessing said war criminals are heroes to the Japanese.
Am I right?

Maybe to ultra-nationalists, but probably not to ordinary Japanese.

[RusskiSoldat]

You never know.
The Japanese are quite strange, and I can't even begin to understand them.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

You never know.
The Japanese are quite strange, and I can't even begin to understand them.

Yeah.. what would I know.. I only lived and worked there for three years . You yourself admit that you don't understand Japan. As someone who has lived there and has a somewhat more informed opinion on the matter I can safely say that many normal, everyday Japanese would not consider them as heroes.

[Ahlerich]

war criminals give 110% =sarcasm=

[Tom Paine]

I think that the solution of purging them would work so long as you only separate out war criminals and so long as they are respectfully reintered (they were human...)

[Cluny the Scourge]

"Yes, Japanese aren't really human at all - they are some kind of strange mutagenic aberration on standard human-DNA."

Or, possibly, you're talking rubbish.

Time passes. There are fewer and fewer old men with money and power in the background of Japanese politics to insist upon proper respect for the murderous pasts of themselves or their fathers.

Of course, the West is cunningly partly to blame for this by polluting the Japanese diet with junk food, causing their old rice-and-fish life-expectancy to decrease.

[Ahiga]

I think it would be fine to visit the site if the A-grade War Criminals were removed. Imagine a German leader of government paying homage to a shrine to german soldiers which also housed or encorporated some of the most notorious SS officers or Nazi Party Members? The political outcry and fury by many would be astronomical, and the same can be said for the worst of the Japanese.

[RusskiSoldat]

Yeah.. what would I know.. I only lived and worked there for three years . You yourself admit that you don't understand Japan. As someone who has lived there and has a somewhat more informed opinion on the matter I can safely say that many normal, everyday Japanese would not consider them as heroes.

No need to be so deffensive.

[sephodwyrm]

I just read a book by an American journalist who has interviewed numeorus Japanese and American veterans in the Pacific theater. The conclusions made me a more moderate man. The thing to worry about (and some Japanese do feel so too) is that the ultra-nationalist right wing still hold significant influence and power within the governnment. I think there were a few left wing activists that protested against this.

No doubt even some Japanese want the entire Yasukuni shrine destroyed.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

I just read a book by an American journalist who has interviewed numeorus Japanese and American veterans in the Pacific theater. The conclusions made me a more moderate man. The thing to worry about (and some Japanese do feel so too) is that the ultra-nationalist right wing still hold significant influence and power within the governnment. I think there were a few left wing activists that protested against this.

No doubt even some Japanese want the entire Yasukuni shrine destroyed.

Would that book have been called Rising Sun:the rise and fall of the Japanese empre? And I too agree with you, there are some ultra-nationalists scare me.


At Russki- sorry...we all have moments

[KingOfTheIsles]

I say let the past be the past. These men are dead and gone, and as long as the Japanese PM is only visiting to honour the war dead, not the war criminals, no harm is being done.

[Xiaodun]

It would be a great idea; but not doable now.
Our rather popular Prime Minister Koizumi is about to retire and the Liberal Democratic Party is up in arms over his successor.

Some guys want the super right Aso; others want the slightly more moderate Abe; and others want the liberal Fukuda.

Of them Aso and Abe are pro-Yasukuni while Fukuda doesn't give a rat about going.

If they talked about getting the Criminals out of Yasukuni, Aso would protest against it for the sheer sake of standing up and end up in some horrible arguement with Fukuda and tear apart the LDP.

[SovietDoom]

Would that book have been called Rising Sun:the rise and fall of the Japanese empre? And I too agree with you, there are some ultra-nationalists scare me.

I would have assumed he was referring to that.

Of course, nationalist politics are on the rise in Japan, so expect to see a Japan that is rather more agressive in the future, though not to the point of invading China and killing 10 millions Chinese.

[Tiwaz]

What about respecting people on side of the winners?

In the end, only thing separating war criminal and war hero is... Success.

As such I find it in a way hypocrite for west (or winners) to state how bad it is to respect leaders of losing side while respecting their own side without even slight sign of remorse.
For example "Bomber" Harris who has not been disowned by his side. This man would be right there in list of Grade-A warcriminals (and objectively not completely without reason) had he not been fortunate enough to be on winning side. Or, to draw this closer to Finland, Soviet patrols operating in finnish territory during WW2 which are responsible for numerous attacks on defenceless finnish villages often slaughtering everyone who lived there (civilians not soldiers) who are still hailed as heroes in Russia.

Yes, I know. Tradition, winner writes history and all that. But I have this odd habit of at least trying to be objective in these old matters.

[GeneralLee]

What about respecting people on side of the winners?

In the end, only thing separating war criminal and war hero is... Success.

As such I find it in a way hypocrite for west (or winners) to state how bad it is to respect leaders of losing side while respecting their own side without even slight sign of remorse.
For example "Bomber" Harris who has not been disowned by his side. This man would be right there in list of Grade-A warcriminals (and objectively not completely without reason) had he not been fortunate enough to be on winning side. Or, to draw this closer to Finland, Soviet patrols operating in finnish territory during WW2 which are responsible for numerous attacks on defenceless finnish villages often slaughtering everyone who lived there (civilians not soldiers) who are still hailed as heroes in Russia.

Yes, I know. Tradition, winner writes history and all that. But I have this odd habit of at least trying to be objective in these old matters.

Your trying to compare the allies to deathmarches and concentration camps with the raiding of some fishing villages?

Anyways those war criminals internned do not deserve proper burial much less to be enshrined and honored.

[Tiwaz]

Your trying to compare the allies to deathmarches and concentration camps with the raiding of some fishing villages?

Anyways those war criminals internned do not deserve proper burial much less to be enshrined and honored.

I rest my case. As long as such double standards exist japanese should continue as they have to this day.

[Tom Paine]

I rest my case. As long as such double standards exist japanese should continue as they have to this day.

That is not a double standard. Raiding an enemy-held fishing village is somewhat (read, almost cmpletely) different to forced deathmarches for PoWs.

[Tiwaz]

That is not a double standard. Raiding an enemy-held fishing village is somewhat (read, almost cmpletely) different to forced deathmarches for PoWs.

How about if we reword "raid" with "slaughtering defenceless civilians"?
Or "Firebombing civilian housing"?

But hey! They were done by allies so they HAD to be necessary evil, unlike anything done by opposite side. One should also ask how many actions have been covered up... After WW2 every single incident by losers was gone through very carefully and prosecuted. Meanwhile opposite was far from truth.