PLaying as Seleucids on h/h

[asmorrey1]

Hi all. Playing through a campaign on hard/hard as Seleucids. Basically i've been at war from turn to with Parthia, Armenia, Pontus and Egypt. I'm spending hours just defending my cities. I've built up my barracks and can now produce phalanx pikemen and silver shields but just can't seem to get head way, with my empire being attacked on all sides. Anyone got any tips? Or any particular ideas for army composition to give me a chance? I feel like this game could just go on infinitely :p

[BrokenLantern]

Take Asia Minor, Focus the majority of your forces on one front. Once you have Asia minor you have a good economic area and an easy way to defend(Put forts in between the mountain passes) After that go after Parthia, Armenia Or pontus depending on there strength.

Good Luck.

[Ruprecht]

I've played countless Seleucid campaigns, they are my favorite faction. They do have a very hostile starting location though, which i have always believed is fully intended and probably historically accurate. Seleucid games are ALWAYS hectic at the beginning, but once you get passed that you pretty much steamroll everything in your path. So i would savor this moment in the game, it's one of the few factions that are literally just Total war, personally i love that part. It gives you the opportunity to build up your generals' into fearless killing machines in a short period of time, as well as capitalize on the potential economies of surrounding settlements. It's a very prosperous area.

With my games i always focus on destroying Egypt first as they will get very annoying later on, and i mean from turn one you should have already made preparations to take the nearest settlement. Pull every general out of their cities and start tearing through Egypt until they are gone or don't pose any real threat. Also from turn one its good to send a general into Crete and have him recruit Cretan archers from surrounding area's whenever possible. I usually station a non-family member general there permanently, that will traverse between Crete and Greece every few turns to recruit as many archers as possible. The reason for this is Cretan archers are superb unit and invaluable to your cause. Mixed with Seleucid's already strong unit roster will make your armies extremely lethal.

Also check around Antioch for Elephant mercs early on, they will turn the tide of many battles and enable you to get a foothold in Egypt. Your main goal from here is just to make your land peaceful enough so you can focus attention to the infrastructure of your main cities. Order one of your best general's (preferably faction leader) to govern Antioch and advance in technology and City level as quick as possible. Don't forget that only some settlements are capable of training Elephants so put some though behind your city planning. At this point, the only thing i am concerned about is enabling the training of Cataphract and War-Elephants, as soon as they become available to you, there is really not a force in the world that can stop you.

There is much more to this but much i have forgotten, it's been a very long time since i have played Rome. Good luck with your game and update us with your progress.

EDIT:

Whoops, i forgot about army composition. I usually have 1-2 general's, 4-6 units of Cataphracts, 2 units of Elephant, 4-6 units of Cretan archers, and 4-5 units of Silver shield pikemen. The pikemen don't really see much combat, they are mainly there to deter cavalry charges and to absorb damage from archer fire, most importantly they are there to protect your Cretan's.

[asmorrey1]

With my games i always focus on destroying Egypt first as they will get very annoying later on, and i mean from turn one you should have already made preparations to take the nearest settlement. Pull every general out of their cities and start tearing through Egypt until they are gone or don't pose any real threat. Also from turn one its good to send a general into Crete and have him recruit Cretan archers from surrounding area's whenever possible. I usually station a non-family member general there permanently, that will traverse between Crete and Greece every few turns to recruit as many archers as possible. The reason for this is Cretan archers are superb unit and invaluable to your cause. Mixed with Seleucid's already strong unit roster will make your armies extremely lethal.

EDIT:

Whoops, i forgot about army composition. I usually have 1-2 general's, 4-6 units of Cataphracts, 2 units of Elephant, 4-6 units of Cretan archers, and 4-5 units of Silver shield pikemen. The pikemen don't really see much combat, they are mainly there to deter cavalry charges and to absorb damage from archer fire, most importantly they are there to protect your Cretan's.

Wow thank you for taking the time to reply in such a helpful and thorough fashion! Please have some rep! I have through necessity rather than careful planning launched an assault on egypt. They seemed to be much more of a threat whereas with Pontus and Armenia I have managed to fend them off during siege battles. This seems to suit my forces against these armies as confined streets reduces the effectiveness of their cavalry. Although i've still been given a bloody nose. Especially by the eastern general units! They seem to fare well even against my phalanxes. I've lost my city in Anatolia to the Greeks. I've had to accept it's loss for now while I focus on Egypt.

Thank you for the advice on army composition. I have mainly focussed on levy and phalanx pikemen. I have been rather disappointed with their performance so far. But I know realise a more useful thing would be to use more strong cavalry units like elephants or cataphracts. How do you fight against the chariots? I'm rather timid with my elephants when those bad boys are around.


Thanks to all for the replies!

[Ruprecht]

I agree completely with this guy...I just finished my first game completely as the Seleucids and it was by far the hardest but most fun. I beat nearly the entire game with armies of only militia hoplites only. I've found that nearly every army acts they are hitting a brick wall when they hit a phalanx. I did notice that the lack of armor causes the weakest militia hoplites to get killed pretty quickly by projectiles so forming a battle square with archers and singers in the middle caused easy wins through the whole game. Seemed to be a good strategy for me.

Nice one. Yeah, the Phalanx formation is kind of absurd, i can see why they watered it down in M2TW, but i still love using them.

Wow thank you for taking the time to reply in such a helpful and thorough fashion! Please have some rep! I have through necessity rather than careful planning launched an assault on egypt. They seemed to be much more of a threat whereas with Pontus and Armenia I have managed to fend them off during siege battles. This seems to suit my forces against these armies as confined streets reduces the effectiveness of their cavalry. Although i've still been given a bloody nose. Especially by the eastern general units! They seem to fare well even against my phalanxes. I've lost my city in Anatolia to the Greeks. I've had to accept it's loss for now while I focus on Egypt.

Thank you for the advice on army composition. I have mainly focussed on levy and phalanx pikemen. I have been rather disappointed with their performance so far. But I know realise a more useful thing would be to use more strong cavalry units like elephants or cataphracts. How do you fight against the chariots? I'm rather timid with my elephants when those bad boys are around.


Thanks to all for the replies!

Hehe, i'm glad you found that helpful, or at least interesting.

With the low tier Pikemen, i have found that i have to be very careful because they rely purely on you using optimal Phalanx formations, their positioning has to be pretty much perfect, as opposed to the silver-shields which can mitigate some of that damage if their position and state are not ideal. It took me a long time to perfect the use of them and i think their usefulness may depend on difficulty too. I mostly play on H/M because i find Hard-battles to be somewhat unrealistic in the sense that the enemy can do superior damage than their higher-tier counterparts, although i have done a few hard campaigns and i can relate to what you are saying.

Don't get me started on Chariots lol, they are crazy unpredictable death machines. I was at a stage in my games where i come across a useful tactic for them using cavalry, but because chariots have a lot of variation in how their attacks work, the success rate of this was inconsistent. Sometimes it would kill the whole unit with hardly any casualties, and other times the chariots would do their swirly-spiny thing and i would get massacred. I have forgotten what the trick was now, maybe just attack them while their back is turned lol.


Btw, seeing this topic made me want to play Rome so bad.

Pikemen don't absorb missile fire. You want the Legionaries to with their testudo during campaign. Pikemen are vulnerable to missiles.

I use the term "Absorb" loosely, as in they mitigate damage for the rest of the army (not themselves).

The Pikemen are essential but also dispensable, and since they hardly ever see combat, the accumulated experience is a negligible factor. This is a necessary sacrifice and especially useful for unavoidable encounters with Horse-archer armies, where taking missile fire is inevitable. Pikemen can not only multi-task in an army, but they are also easily replaced.

[Vindictus]

I use the term "Absorb" loosely, as in they mitigate damage for the rest of the army (not themselves).

The Pikemen are essential but also dispensable, and since they hardly ever see combat, the accumulated experience is a negligible factor. This is a necessary sacrifice and especially useful for unavoidable encounters with Horse-archer armies, where taking missile fire is inevitable. Pikemen can not only multi-task in an army, but they are also easily replaced.

I take great respect in my pikemen . I killed 3000 Egyptians using only 2 units of Levy, 1 Militia hoplite, 1 Militia Cav, and 1 Peltast.

[Ruprecht]

Nice, apparently I'm a noob.

Welcome to the club.

I take great respect in my pikemen . I killed 3000 Egyptians using only 2 units of Levy, 1 Militia hoplite, 1 Militia Cav, and 1 Peltast.

Take that Egyptian scum!

[Alexander 2]

I take great respect in my pikemen . I killed 3000 Egyptians using only 2 units of Levy, 1 Militia hoplite, 1 Militia Cav, and 1 Peltast.

That's quite an interesting feat. I was able to do something similar, but in a city. The AI in RTW is bogus, so I ended up with around 4000 kills and 20 deaths. Did you win the fight outside city walls?

[asmorrey1]

Btw, seeing this topic made me want to play Rome so bad.

Mate, get back on it! Even after all these years I am still in love with this game. Although I have to admit that this play through is driving me mad! I've struggled and struggled. Finally started to gain headway and beat back the annoying Egyptian hordes heading towards Cairo. But now the Greeks are moving into my lands to the North. I'm walking on a knife edge here. I've sent in my full Stack straight to Cairo to try and draw the Egyptians away from my lands. Trying to muster another force now to defend the north against the Greek City states. It's either going to go well or horribly horribly wrong.

As far as battle tactics go. I think I need to be more patient. I often can't see the battlefield at once and pike units always end up getting flanked and smashed apart while my attention is focussed elsewhere. It's those god damned Chariots! My cavalry is always getting cut up. I'm not that impressed with Elephants so far. They usually just end up routing fairly quick or start to run amok. Maybe i'm not utilising them well enough!

[Ruprecht]

Mate, get back on it! Even after all these years I am still in love with this game. Although I have to admit that this play through is driving me mad! I've struggled and struggled. Finally started to gain headway and beat back the annoying Egyptian hordes heading towards Cairo. But now the Greeks are moving into my lands to the North. I'm walking on a knife edge here. I've sent in my full Stack straight to Cairo to try and draw the Egyptians away from my lands. Trying to muster another force now to defend the north against the Greek City states. It's either going to go well or horribly horribly wrong.

As far as battle tactics go. I think I need to be more patient. I often can't see the battlefield at once and pike units always end up getting flanked and smashed apart while my attention is focussed elsewhere. It's those god damned Chariots! My cavalry is always getting cut up. I'm not that impressed with Elephants so far. They usually just end up routing fairly quick or start to run amok. Maybe i'm not utilising them well enough!

Patience will definitely serve you well, especially since you're playing on Hard. Being so early in the game you don't have the luxury of being aggressive in combat, since the backbone of your armies are probably Pikemen and are best used defensively.

Elephants are a very specialized unit, they are like you said, prone to running amok if they are put in a hectic situation, and are not terribly efficient in sustained combat. They are purely a shock-troop and serve as a buffer\deterrent between you and the enemy. Their biggest strength is the ability to damage enemy moral. They only need to be positioned correctly to do their job, typically at the weak points of your ranks, this way you can manipulate the AI into attacking where you want them to. The only time they should be used offensively is when the enemy's moral is low, or have support from other shock-troops.


Can i ask what your armies consist of, also which types of armies are you having trouble with the most ? and did you have any luck finding those Cretan archers ?


Btw, i took your advice and installed Rome again last night, might start a fresh Seleucid campaign hehe!

[Vindictus]

Pikemen don't absorb missile fire. You want the Legionaries to with their testudo during campaign. Pikemen are vulnerable to missiles.

[zbeck008]

I've played countless Seleucid campaigns, they are my favorite faction. They do have a very hostile starting location though, which i have always believed is fully intended and probably historically accurate. Seleucid games are ALWAYS hectic at the beginning, but once you get passed that you pretty much steamroll everything in your path. So i would savor this moment in the game, it's one of the few factions that are literally just Total war, personally i love that part. It gives you the opportunity to build up your generals' into fearless killing machines in a short period of time, as well as capitalize on the potential economies of surrounding settlements. It's a very prosperous area.

With my games i always focus on destroying Egypt first as they will get very annoying later on, and i mean from turn one you should have already made preparations to take the nearest settlement. Pull every general out of their cities and start tearing through Egypt until they are gone or don't pose any real threat. Also from turn one its good to send a general into Crete and have him recruit Cretan archers from surrounding area's whenever possible. I usually station a non-family member general there permanently, that will traverse between Crete and Greece every few turns to recruit as many archers as possible. The reason for this is Cretan archers are superb unit and invaluable to your cause. Mixed with Seleucid's already strong unit roster will make your armies extremely lethal.

Also check around Antioch for Elephant mercs early on, they will turn the tide of many battles and enable you to get a foothold in Egypt. Your main goal from here is just to make your land peaceful enough so you can focus attention to the infrastructure of your main cities. Order one of your best general's (preferably faction leader) to govern Antioch and advance in technology and City level as quick as possible. Don't forget that only some settlements are capable of training Elephants so put some though behind your city planning. At this point, the only thing i am concerned about is enabling the training of Cataphract and War-Elephants, as soon as they become available to you, there is really not a force in the world that can stop you.

There is much more to this but much i have forgotten, it's been a very long time since i have played Rome. Good luck with your game and update us with your progress.

EDIT:

Whoops, i forgot about army composition. I usually have 1-2 general's, 4-6 units of Cataphracts, 2 units of Elephant, 4-6 units of Cretan archers, and 4-5 units of Silver shield pikemen. The pikemen don't really see much combat, they are mainly there to deter cavalry charges and to absorb damage from archer fire, most importantly they are there to protect your Cretan's.

I agree completely with this guy...I just finished my first game completely as the Seleucids and it was by far the hardest but most fun. I beat nearly the entire game with armies of only militia hoplites only. I've found that nearly every army acts they are hitting a brick wall when they hit a phalanx. I did notice that the lack of armor causes the weakest militia hoplites to get killed pretty quickly by projectiles so forming a battle square with archers and singers in the middle caused easy wins through the whole game. Seemed to be a good strategy for me.

[tudor93]

I agree completely with this guy...I just finished my first game completely as the Seleucids and it was by far the hardest but most fun. I beat nearly the entire game with armies of only militia hoplites only. I've found that nearly every army acts they are hitting a brick wall when they hit a phalanx. I did notice that the lack of armor causes the weakest militia hoplites to get killed pretty quickly by projectiles so forming a battle square with archers and singers in the middle caused easy wins through the whole game. Seemed to be a good strategy for me.

yes, the famous noob box

[zbeck008]

yes, the famous noob box

Nice, apparently I'm a noob.

[jackbush]

This is a great thread. I've been struggling with the Seleucids at M/M and yesterday got attacked by four different factions all in the same turn. I'm intrigued with the immediate attack on Egypt and I'll try that.

My question is about Sardis which is way the hell and gone from my other Seleucid cities and can't crank out anything other than those basic militia hoplites. How do you deal with that one?

Thanks.

[Paggers]

This is a great thread. I've been struggling with the Seleucids at M/M and yesterday got attacked by four different factions all in the same turn. I'm intrigued with the immediate attack on Egypt and I'll try that.

My question is about Sardis which is way the hell and gone from my other Seleucid cities and can't crank out anything other than those basic militia hoplites. How do you deal with that one?

Thanks.

Initially, you need to get your family member out of the settlement and hire as many Cretan Archers and Rhodian Slingers, also some mercenary hoplites as you can. Then retreat back in.
Recruit about 6 militia hoplites and this is your basic defense force.
Normally, there is a coming of age in Sardis early on. Move this new family member and 4 militia hoplites and your mercenaries onto the bridge separating Sardis and Halicarnassus. If Halicarnassus is lghtly defended then attack it.
When you take it transport your army, minus the mercenary hoplites back to Sardis.
If Pontus attacks then sally and shoot the crap out of his forces with your archers/slingers and massacre any routing units if he retreats. Rinse and repaet but do not hire any more troops in Sardis. If necessary hire peasants in Halicarnassus and disband them in Sardis to boost the population. Once you expand then obviously upgrade your infantry. I don't bother with the missile upgrades as you can hire Cretans as and when they are available in both territories you hold and also Pergamum. Don't forget to keep recruiting and developing Halicarnassus and ship some basic troops to Sardis to act as a garrison.

[jackbush]

Initially, you need to get your family member out of the settlement and hire as many Cretan Archers and Rhodian Slingers, also some mercenary hoplites as you can. Then retreat back in.
Recruit about 6 militia hoplites and this is your basic defense force.
Normally, there is a coming of age in Sardis early on. Move this new family member and 4 militia hoplites and your mercenaries onto the bridge separating Sardis and Halicarnassus. If Halicarnassus is lghtly defended then attack it.
When you take it transport your army, minus the mercenary hoplites back to Sardis.
If Pontus attacks then sally and shoot the crap out of his forces with your archers/slingers and massacre any routing units if he retreats. Rinse and repaet but do not hire any more troops in Sardis. If necessary hire peasants in Halicarnassus and disband them in Sardis to boost the population. Once you expand then obviously upgrade your infantry. I don't bother with the missile upgrades as you can hire Cretans as and when they are available in both territories you hold and also Pergamum. Don't forget to keep recruiting and developing Halicarnassus and ship some basic troops to Sardis to act as a garrison.

Is that how you get the mercenaries -- move the family member just outside the settlement and he can then hire them? I never understood that; should probably read the FM, eh?

Thanks, great answer.

[War lord]

I agree with everyone else here, you need to rush the yellow death before they can build a real army. You should also renforce Hatra, Armenia is obsessed with attacking it. Once the Egyptians are dead, the other eastern factions are basically pushovers and you can kill them off one by one. Then you can stop, build up your armys (Seleucids have one of the best Rosters in the game.) and get ready for Rome.

[Ruprecht]

I agree with everyone else here, you need to rush the yellow death before they can build a real army. You should also renforce Hatra, Armenia is obsessed with attacking it. Once the Egyptians are dead, the other eastern factions are basically pushovers and you can kill them off one by one. Then you can stop, build up your armys (Seleucids have one of the best Rosters in the game.) and get ready for Rome.

Well put. I have such nostalgia reading this, that i am salivating at the thought of playing another Seleucid campaign. Though there is much work to do, i'm still trying to work out how to install this damn Seleucid texture pack.

For those interested, this texture mod looks awesome : http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46617

[Bonez]

Well put. I have such nostalgia reading this, that i am salivating at the thought of playing another Seleucid campaign. Though there is much work to do, i'm still trying to work out how to install this damn Seleucid texture pack.

For those interested, this texture mod looks awesome : http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=46617

Do you have any basic mod knowledge? Even though go to this link and down to the add textures and unit cards sections. I was working on installing the roman ones earlier, I got the battle map ones but the unit cards were me over.