Allies don't care?

[Macunaíma]

I noticed when playing vanilla last time that everytime I attacked a nation their allies started to drop relations with me. Eventually they attacked (no exceptions). But now I'm playing a new campaign, and I was attacked (by the most powerful faction in the game). I have three allies, my relations with them are Outstanding/Perfect. Why don't they help me? Are they too afraid of my enemy and his allies? I bet that together we could defeat them all. I even sent diplomats to request their military assistance but they refused (always appears as "very demanding").

[Sweger]

I have two theories; 1) It's simply because you are the player, the player alwas get random disadvanatges, and 2) eve though your relations with your allies are superb, your average reputation might be terrible (maybe not only yours, but of the whole alliance).

[Macunaíma]

I have two theories; 1) It's simply because you are the player, the player alwas get random disadvanatges, and 2) eve though your relations with your allies are superb, your average reputation might be terrible (maybe not only yours, but of the whole alliance).

I'm reliable (my allies are too if I'm not wrong).

[Sweger]

I'm reliable (my allies are too if I'm not wrong).

Hm, then I can't really tell, then I only have my first theory left.

[ckndr]

Its no reputation or player disadvantage issue. You're giving AI too much credit.
Fact is that the just AI sucks. There is no concept of helping was included in AI, even their own settlements sometimes.

[ckndr]

Oh I just noticed you just meant relations, not actual army help. Never-mind.
But I still wish AI was at least a little capable of helping allies.

[Aeratus]

They don't help because coordinated military activity between Allies don't exist in the game.

The only joint military activity is only if two allied stacks incidentally happen to be close together (and in this case, alliance makes them go into battle on the same side). But this occurs only by random. There is no system for allies to attack together.

Therefore, an alliance is mainly a peace treaty.

[Teutonic Warlord]

They don't help because coordinated military activity between Allies don't exist in the game.

The only joint military activity is only if two allied stacks incidentally happen to be close together (and in this case, alliance makes them go into battle on the same side). But this occurs only by random. There is no system for allies to attack together.

Therefore, an alliance is mainly a peace treaty.

This, and other factions are unwilling to support a faction that is on the losing side (often based, I believe, on current army and settlement quality and quantity). Of course, another faction with the same enemy will be more willing to ally with you. No one wants to ally with a loser because they will tick off the winner. Looking for allies and help when you are in a war when you are (statistically speaking) losing is very difficult, which is why a request for alliance or help is "Demanding" or "Very Demanding."

In other words, the AI factions prefer to ride the bandwagon.

[Sweger]

This, and other factions are unwilling to support a faction that is on the losing side (often based, I believe, on current army and settlement quality and quantity). Of course, another faction with the same enemy will be more willing to ally with you. No one wants to ally with a loser because they will tick off the winner. Looking for allies and help when you are in a war when you are (statistically speaking) losing is very difficult, which is why a request for alliance or help is "Demanding" or "Very Demanding."

In other words, the AI factions prefer to ride the bandwagon.

Have you actually experienced and seen that military assistance go from "demanding" to "generous" as the tide of war turns in your favour?

[Mhaedros]

I have

[King William the Conqueror]

hmmm. I actually prefer it this way. In Empire Total War it ends up that you can't attack anyone without automatically making your allies come in. It get tiresome because if you declare war on one country then all 6 of their allies start fighting you and it turns in to World War 0 very quickly.

[Teutonic Warlord]

Have you actually experienced and seen that military assistance go from "demanding" to "generous" as the tide of war turns in your favour?

Yes, I have, though I rarely ask for military assistance. Often when I play the BE, my armies are mainly horse archers, whose stats can't compare to the stats of Venice's militia/units (at least as far as autoresolve goes). Until I can conquer some of their settlements and destroy enough of their forces, other factions refuse to start alliances with me.

hmmm. I actually prefer it this way. In Empire Total War it ends up that you can't attack anyone without automatically making your allies come in. It get tiresome because if you declare war on one country then all 6 of their allies start fighting you and it turns in to World War 0 very quickly.

Well, you could uncheck that box when declaring war so you don't call your allies to join you...
Plus, if you are strong enough and not caught up in other wars, allies of your new enemy may prefer to stay out of your fight. Either way, I actually like Empire's system because I can attack one country so I can go to war with one of their allies who I can't (or don't want to) directly declare war on without ticking off many others.

[Macunaíma]

I also have an alliance with the Papal States, but the papal standing of my enemy doesn't seem to drop...

[Teutonic Warlord]

I also have an alliance with the Papal States, but the papal standing of my enemy doesn't seem to drop...

It will drop when your enemy decides to defy the Pope. I believe that their standing should have dropped a point or two for attacking you, though. Of course, you could always try assassinating the Pope and putting your own guy in there so that the Pope will hate your enemy, making it easier for them to be excommunicated.

[King William the Conqueror]

Like Teutonic said, you can uncheck the box to ask your allies to join you, and then one turn later you can generally get a ceasefire with the enemy's allies pretty easily. That's what I usually do.

I usually try to keep my relations good with everyone in Empire, and it just makes life easier. Slowly expand, so it doesn't affect your diplomatic relations so dramatically. Also, give small gifts to everyone who is important and you don't want to go to war with every couple of turns, and if you've got no cash, then give them some useless technology (non-military).

But, I kind of do like it the M2TW way. You actually have to convince your allies to help you attack enemies, but you don't have a world war by the 10th turn. And, I guess I choose allies temporarily when it looks like we have a similar objective, and I feel like I get much more help, because it's more like, hey, if we're going to be fighting these Moorish s, then we might as well do it together. So basically, try to choose allies only when you feel like you have a similar objective and will be fighting on the same front anyway, or choose them so they are less likely to attack.

I'm a huge fan of coming in on a siege with your ally, when you have like 2 spear militia and your ally has a stack besieging the city, and then assaulting the city and auto-resolve... Then you own the city, although your ally did all the work.

Well even if I do then my enemies ask their allies and I end up with a huge war on my hands.

[Litoralis]

hmmm. I actually prefer it this way. In Empire Total War it ends up that you can't attack anyone without automatically making your allies come in. It get tiresome because if you declare war on one country then all 6 of their allies start fighting you and it turns in to World War 0 very quickly.

Like Teutonic said, you can uncheck the box to ask your allies to join you, and then one turn later you can generally get a ceasefire with the enemy's allies pretty easily. That's what I usually do.

I usually try to keep my relations good with everyone in Empire, and it just makes life easier. Slowly expand, so it doesn't affect your diplomatic relations so dramatically. Also, give small gifts to everyone who is important and you don't want to go to war with every couple of turns, and if you've got no cash, then give them some useless technology (non-military).

But, I kind of do like it the M2TW way. You actually have to convince your allies to help you attack enemies, but you don't have a world war by the 10th turn. And, I guess I choose allies temporarily when it looks like we have a similar objective, and I feel like I get much more help, because it's more like, hey, if we're going to be fighting these Moorish s, then we might as well do it together. So basically, try to choose allies only when you feel like you have a similar objective and will be fighting on the same front anyway, or choose them so they are less likely to attack.

I'm a huge fan of coming in on a siege with your ally, when you have like 2 spear militia and your ally has a stack besieging the city, and then assaulting the city and auto-resolve... Then you own the city, although your ally did all the work.

[The_King]

If you dont like backstabs get the SS (stainless steel)
it improves the game by 100%, i didnt know how i could play the cmapiagn before i got it
heres the address

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=314

[Adamat]

Kind of a necro...