Holocaust haunts Europe.

[Rex Germanius]

Recently, on the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, the Norwegian Prime Minister apologised for Norway's role in the mass murder of Jews during WWII.

Norway apologises for deporting Jews during Holocaust


The Norwegian prime minister has apologised for the role his country played in deporting its own Jews as Europe marks Holocaust Remembrance Day.

"Norwegians carried out the arrests, Norwegians drove the trucks and it happened in Norway," Jens Stoltenberg said in a speech.

It is believed to be the first time a Norwegian leader has been so explicit about collusion under Nazi occupation.

More than a third of Norway's 2,100 Jews were deported to death camps.

Others fled to neighbouring Sweden, which remained neutral during World War II.

Norway acknowledged its role in the Holocaust in 1998 and paid some $60m (£38m) to Norwegian Jews and Jewish organisations in compensation for property seized.

However, the payout fell short of a full apology.
'Time to acknowledge'

Mr Stoltenberg delivered his speech at the dock in the capital Oslo where 532 Jews boarded the cargo ship Donau on 26 November 1942, bound for Nazi camps.

"Today I feel it is fitting for me to express our deepest apologies that this could happen on Norwegian soil," he said in the speech, translated into English on the prime minister's website.

"It is time for us to acknowledge that Norwegian policemen, civil servants and other Norwegians took part in the arrest and deportation of Jews."

He added that he was sorry to see that the "ideas that led to the Holocaust [were] still very much alive today".

"All over the world we see that individuals and groups are spreading intolerance and fear," he said.

Paul Levine, a history professor at Uppsala University in Sweden, likened Norway's role during the war to that of the Vichy regime in Nazi-occupied France.

"They implemented their own anti-Jewish laws, used their own manpower, confiscated property and discriminated against Jews before the Germans had demanded it," he told Reuters news agency.

"Norway didn't have to do what it did."

The Holocaust, during which some six million Jews were murdered, is commemorated on the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz by Soviet troops.

Source
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16761558

The attitude is not limited to Norway; in fact, apologism is much more prevalent in other countries that played a more central role, such as, obviously, Germany. However, how is shame and guilt supposed to help Europe advance? All it does is focus sentiments on a past of atrocities and depress hope for the future. Strangely, German Jews are less prone towards regretting the past:

These people know the history - how could they not? - but they also live lives and make livings.

As Rafael Seligmann told the BBC: "It's important to have a positive identity - not just to say 'my uncle was murdered'."

He has just published a new Jewish newspaper in Berlin, Jewish Voice from Germany.

"People feel it's not enough to have a 'Holocaust identity'. We are trying to show that the Jewish identity is broader," said Mr Seligmann. "It's about culture and history and politics."

Source:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16708340

Progress never derives from pessimism. Its time Europe learned from Seligmann's example and finally followed the quote, "The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." Its time we forgave ourselves.

[Balian76]

The attitude is not limited to Norway; in fact, apologism is much more prevalent in other countries that played a more central role, such as, obviously, Germany. However, how is shame and guilt supposed to help Europe advance?

Advance in what field? I would say Germany has advanced rather well since WWII, economically, socially and culturally. As have most European nations.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

It's been just 70 years since the Holocaust. Hell, even many people who were dragged in concentration camps are still alive. This is a wound which will need its time to heal. It's normal that countries and individuals feel the need to apologize.

[Kanaric]

It's been just 70 years since the Holocaust. Hell, even many people who were dragged in concentration camps are still alive. This is a wound which will need its time to heal. It's normal that countries and individuals feel the need to apologize.

Norway apologizing is kind of ridiculous, they were an occupied nation run by a traitor as a figurehead. Why should they apologize?

[Roboute Guilliman]

Norway apologizing is kind of ridiculous, they were an occupied nation run by a traitor as a figurehead. Why should they apologize?

That is a matter of opinion.

[hellheaven1987]

Norway apologizing is kind of ridiculous, they were an occupied nation run by a traitor as a figurehead. Why should they apologize?

The traitor was still a Norwegian.

[Kanaric]

The traitor was still a Norwegian.

Sweeping generalization.

So was the German who committed arson in Hollywood we don't all associate Germans with arson.

The german cannibal who ate that volunteer, was that also the fault of the German people?

Cutting people is a crime. Surgeons cut people, therefore, surgeons are criminals.

That is a matter of opinion.

So its an opinion that they were invaded, occupied, and had a puppet traitor leading this country?

Also that doesn't answer the question of "why should they apologize". That wasn't a rhetorical question I am seriously asking that. WHY?

[Nikitn]

Sweeping generalization.

So was the German who committed arson in Hollywood we don't all associate Germans with arson.

The german cannibal who ate that volunteer, was that also the fault of the German people?

Cutting people is a crime. Surgeons cut people, therefore, surgeons are criminals.


So its an opinion that they were invaded, occupied, and had a puppet traitor leading this country?

Also that doesn't answer the question of "why should they apologize". That wasn't a rhetorical question I am seriously asking that. WHY?

Why the aggressive ignorance? Norway had many tens of thousands of collaborators, and even the Norwegian police (the same as the pre-war one) helped the Nazis.

[Mangalore]

It's been just 70 years since the Holocaust. Hell, even many people who were dragged in concentration camps are still alive. ...

No, by any general definition of the word "many" actually most people of the era have already died of natural causes by now be it WW2 veterans, civilians or victims of the Holocaust. We are at the time where this generation will die out quickly and already the vast majority of them has done so.

Most of the survivors of ww2 are now beyond their 70s if they were children then and in their 90s to 100s if they were adults. That's not an age frame with lots of people.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

No, by any general definition of the word "many" actually most people of the era have already died of natural causes by now be it WW2 veterans, civilians or victims of the Holocaust. We are at the time where this generation will die out quickly and already the vast majority of them has done so.

Most of the survivors of ww2 are now beyond their 70s if they were children then and in their 90s to 100s if they were adults. That's not an age frame with lots of people.

I know many people who are beyond their 70s. Comparing the figures of those who perished in the concentration camps with those who got out alive, the proportion of those who got out and are still alive is probably significant.

[Inconsistent]

This has the ability to be an interesting discussion, please don't descend into semantics.

[Ghoul_Sunday]

Funny that everyone talks about denazification (which was already done with success years ago), but no one talks about decommunization which has never been done in Europe and as far as i'm concerned communizm killed vastly more people than nazism. There is this taboo in almost every european country to hate nazis and let commies live. You can freely walk around with your Chegueveara t-shirt, but if you would try to do the same with Hitler's image on it...

[Knight of Heaven]

Funny that everyone talks about denazification (which was already done with success years ago), but no one talks about decommunization which has never been done in Europe and as far as i'm concerned communizm killed vastly more people than nazism. There is this taboo in almost every european country to hate nazis and let commies live. You can freely walk around with your Chegueveara t-shirt, but if you would try to do the same with Hitler's image on it...

Hitler diferent then che guevara comparing the two is Absurd.

[Poet]

Recently, on the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, the Norwegian Prime Minister apologised for Norway's role in the mass murder of Jews during WWII.



Source
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16761558

The attitude is not limited to Norway; in fact, apologism is much more prevalent in other countries that played a more central role, such as, obviously, Germany. However, how is shame and guilt supposed to help Europe advance? All it does is focus sentiments on a past of atrocities and depress hope for the future. Strangely, German Jews are less prone towards regretting the past:


Source:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16708340

Progress never derives from pessimism. Its time Europe learned from Seligmann's example and finally followed the quote, "The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." Its time we forgave ourselves.

During Iraq war British parliament passed a resolution to avoid any disturbance to animals in al-Zawarah zoo Baghdad from allied bombing. At a time when children, women, old, and innocent men of Baghdad were getting caught in fire dropping from skies. Sometimes when we are extremely cruel to one side we try to be extremely civilized and careful for other to justify before the 'good being' in us that we are not bad. Must be some psychological problem, I don't know how Freud defined this if he ever did.

[Kitsunegari]

During Iraq war British parliament passed a resolution to avoid any disturbance to animals in al-Zawarah zoo Baghdad from allied bombing. At a time when children, women, old, and innocent men of Baghdad were getting caught in fire dropping from skies. Sometimes when we are extremely cruel to one side we try to be extremely civilized and careful for other to justify before the 'good being' in us that we are not bad. Must be some psychological problem, I don't know how Freud defined this if he ever did.

FWIW the Nazi government was known for its strong animal rights program.

[Toho]

just a historical question here; when can people let the holocaust go? its constantly bieng brought up be it in movies or apologetic messages.
its like dude we got it some really screwed up thing happened, can we let it go now and move on? i just think its kind of sad that people just cant let go of this sad past.
sure its sad a people were gathered up and systematically killed along with others (lets not forget those guys) but in the end genocide is mass killings right? well the world has had plenty of that for various reasons, Mao or Stalin come up as examples.

lets just let this go and move on shall we? we cant keep doing this forever right?

[Poet]

just a historical question here; when can people let the holocaust go? its constantly bieng brought up be it in movies or apologetic messages.
its like dude we got it some really screwed up thing happened, can we let it go now and move on? i just think its kind of sad that people just cant let go of this sad past.
sure its sad a people were gathered up and systematically killed along with others (lets not forget those guys) but in the end genocide is mass killings right? well the world has had plenty of that for various reasons, Mao or Stalin come up as examples.

lets just let this go and move on shall we? we cant keep doing this forever right?

This is so anti-Semite and I don't care if Arabs are also Semites.

[Condottiere 40K]

It's over when the electorate gets tired of the issue being used for political purposes.

[Ahlerich]

Recently, on the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, the Norwegian Prime Minister apologised for Norway's role in the mass murder of Jews during WWII.



Source
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16761558

The attitude is not limited to Norway; in fact, apologism is much more prevalent in other countries that played a more central role, such as, obviously, Germany. However, how is shame and guilt supposed to help Europe advance? All it does is focus sentiments on a past of atrocities and depress hope for the future. Strangely, German Jews are less prone towards regretting the past:


Source:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16708340

Progress never derives from pessimism. Its time Europe learned from Seligmann's example and finally followed the quote, "The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." Its time we forgave ourselves.

these memories need to be kept alive as a warning for the future. this is why these memoriums and memories are crucial. it must not be forgotten.
that countries involved redeemed themselves is not the point.

in germany you can see already that many young people dont want to hear about ww2 guilt. they think they werent alive, they are not guilty, its none of their business. this is wrong. sure they are not guilty but it is everybodys business. it is also the business of the youth and future generations of countries that were completely uninvolved in the holocaust and its even the business of future generations of countries that fought the nazis.

unfortunately this memory fades. a recent poll showed that many germans younger then 25 did not even know what auswitz is/was. once this bad example of nazi germany is forgotten its just a matter of time until something similar will emerge again. maybe not against the jews, maybe not in germany but attrocities against minorities somewhere.

[Nimthill]

The holocaust was special, not because it was a genocide or a mass killing. It was special because an entire country of normal people participated in erecting an industry designed for killing people by the millions. Hitler may or may not have been a complete madman, but what about the thousands of Germans he got to help him?

It's a shocking example of mass manipulation and a testimony of what groups humans can do if they are unchecked.

It must never be forgotten. Forgiven maybe, but never forgotten.