A Traitor to His Nation

[cenkiss]

Do you think it is ok that when a man completely abandones his country,does not want to be any part of it and does not even want to be part of that nation?For example a man born and raised in iraq (put any country here,this is just an example) hates his country and abandones it and assimilates willingly to some other country and becomes a part of it.Or does he become some kind of traitor because he left the country he was born?And that he always has a duty to 'his country and motherland'?

[ivan_the_terrible]

No duty to the country unless the country has helped him in any way, imo.

For example I was born in USSR. It does not exist anymore - how can I be loyal to it? Where I was born then became Kyrgyzstan. It did nothing good for me or my family - suddenly it was a Kyrgyz nation state and all non-Kyrgyz became foreigners whom Kyrgyzs 'graciously' allowed to live in their country (though Uzbeks got much worse treatment and discrimination than Europeans). My (immediate) family managed to leave, fortunately. I don't think the fact that I feel absolutely no loyalty to the state of Kyrgyzstan makes me a traitor.

[DarthLazy]

No that does not make you a traitor, when you start activities against the (former) state (e.g espionage) , then you are a traitor, and since you are a citizen of the said country, they really can hang you .

[KnightsTemplar]

No that does not make you a traitor, when you start activities against the (former) state (e.g espionage) , then you are a traitor, and since you are a citizen of the said country, they really can hang you .

Eh?
I guess you can just immigrate and throw away the citizenship thing.

[DarthLazy]

Sorta obvious .

[Principe Alessandro]

To be frankly personally I don't feel any obligation toward my native country.

[Rolling Thunder]

Hating dirtball middle eastern countries is perfectly acceptable.

Hating affluent, OECD-member nations that are happy to provide for you even if you don't work is entirely stupid.

[hellheaven1987]

Well, the concept of a country is merely a propaganda from selfish politicians and a dumb obstacle to a united humanity.

[Rolling Thunder]

Yes, but so long as the French exist, you will not find us uniting.

[hellheaven1987]

Yes, but so long as the French exist, you will not find us uniting.

Come on, I believe Europeans are wise enough to understand that if they don't form some sore of union, they cannot really survive in future, just like Ancient Greece; people are just prefering to let blood come to their brain and chant they prefer die rather than a better future.

However I do agree no union before French are gone.

[Condottiere 40K]

It really depends on the circumstances; in most cases, when emigrating, your loyalties are supposed to be transferred to your new country. No one would question that.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

What do you guys mean, 'our native country hasn't offered us anything?'. If that was the case, I would have hated Greece for what we are going through right now. My country is a blessed land for which dozens of generations have given their life to protect it. It is my responsibility to follow in the steps of my ancestors in case of need.

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

There is a huge difference between "nation" and "country". The US is a country, not a nation. Germany is a nation, although some non-Germans are German citizens. Iraq is also a country that consists of the Kurdish and Arab nations. Allegiance to countries and ideologies can change but in very few cases will a man deliberately turn on his own nation. But then again, people even turn against their own family so there you go..

What's interesting is that the American C-in-C during WW-II (Eisenhower) was an ethnic German. My point is that the American state/country assimilates its peoples very effectively.

[hellheaven1987]

What's interesting is that the American C-in-C during WW-II (Eisenhower) was an ethnic German. My point is that the American state/country assimilates its peoples very effectively.

Does not matter since "American" is a political identity instead an ethnical identity; just like many Founding Fathers of USA were ethnically British but did not stop them to declare war against British, twice.

[Manco]

Why should anyone feel loyalty to what amounts to a geographical accident of birth?

I don't see anyone saying the same for blond people, or people who have hairy feet. Which are both similar accidents of birth.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Your example emigrated from Iraq. That doesnt make him a traitor unless his country passes a law making emigration illegal and then it would make him a traitor but only in that country.

[Exarch]

what acts constitute 'betrayal'? joining a foreign army's armed forces even if it's not directed against your country of origin? joining the intelligence services of a foreign country against your home country? speaking out and demonising your country of origin/?

[hellheaven1987]

what acts constitute 'betrayal'? joining a foreign army's armed forces even if it's not directed against your country of origin? joining the intelligence services of a foreign country against your home country? speaking out and demonising your country of origin/?

I think my country is a traitor against my lord's wish.

[IronBrig4]

No, it doesn't make you a traitor. Why should you stay in a country you don't like when there are better options?

[Armenum]

Birth place matters little, it matters to which nation and country you develop an allegiance too. When you break that allegiance, than there is something to say about it.