Representative Democracy: Does it require a strong middle class to be efficient?

[spanish_emperor]

I've always had the view that it does. Japan and South Korea did not truly become democratic until their economy improved and a strong middle class developed. This also explains why democracies in third world or developing countries fail, because there is a lacking middle class.


If this theory is true it means that "spreading democracy" like the U.S. government likes to portray is an illusion (and down goes one of the reasons for "liberating" oppressed governments). Such democracies becomes totalitarian or authoritarian in nature.

But i need comments and different perspectives. So is it true?

[Their Law]

Democracies generally need their populace to be at least somewhat politically aware. So the emergence of a middle class (and thus exposure to more intellectual ideas) generally goes hand in hand with increased social consciousness.

[Scaevola]

I had once heard that the middle classes are the only ones who reasonably support representative democracy.Too poor or too rich have no reason to do so, simply put. Both would benefit more in other forms of society or regime. I am not so sure about that. A too weak middle class wouldn't prevent distribution conflicts between rich an poor. But there are many reasons for democratic societies, why they remain stable (not only economic reasons). It seems to me both spanish_emperor and Their Law are right, but we have to define the term middle class first for more in-depth analysis.

[Condottiere 40K]

All societies need a middle class to be viable - they represent the specialists and managers who maintain it; at some point, they a want a voice in its governance.

[MaximiIian]

Middle class? No. In fact, I think democracy would work best when there is no class system anymore.

However, it does require an educated populace to be optimal. It's just that under the system of capital, the middle and upper classes have the best access to a better education.

[karo]

Middle class? No. In fact, I think democracy would work best when there is no class system anymore.

However, it does require an educated populace to be optimal. It's just that under the system of capital, the middle and upper classes have the best access to a better education.

I would say that a class system will always exist, one person will be richer than an other etc.

I totally agree with your point about education, it seems the most important aspect to insure that democracy grows and survives is education.

[MaximiIian]

I would say that a class system will always exist, one person will be richer than an other etc..

It doesn't have to. We're just allowing it to because it makes things easier. But, to me at least, the right thing isn't always easy. In fact, it's usually hard; but we should strive for it anyway, because it is the right thing to do.

Aside from that, I think social class is more than just how much money you have. It's your total assets, including political power, real wealth, and cultural expectations, in addition to simple money. One can make more money than another and still be in the same social class (or lack of, in the perfect system), depending on what job one is doing and the value of that job to the community and society.

You can't stop human nature.

Yes, you definitely can. Through education, in the group sense, and through individual self-realisation and self-control.

[karo]

It doesn't have to. We're just allowing it to because it makes things easier. But, to me at least, the right thing isn't always easy. In fact, it's usually hard; but we should strive for it anyway, because it is the right thing to do.

Aside from that, I think social class is more than just how much money you have. It's your total assets, including political power, real wealth, and cultural expectations, in addition to simple money. One can make more money than another and still be in the same social class (or lack of, in the perfect system), depending on what job one is doing and the value of that job to the community and society.

I would say classes is part of human nature (like Azoth has already shown). Look at class rooms you already get people dividing themselves in different groups, people who think the same way will stick together hang around with each other and go to the level of society and you have your classes. So how are we going to go passed the human mind were people like to hang around people that think like them, act like them etc.

[Vanoi]

Yes, you definitely can. Through education, in the group sense, and through individual self-realisation and self-control.

We have tried that for many years. Its not working.

[MaximiIian]

We have tried that for many years. Its not working.

Then we're not trying hard enough. It's not going deep enough and far enough. We can do better. Not just give up partway through.

[Thorn777]

Not when you have a completely deluded population feeling guilty about their own debt enslavement. No questions and allot of sweat.

[karo]

Not when you have a completely deluded population feeling guilty about their own debt enslavement. No questions and allot of sweat.

I'm sorry can you explain yourself, because to me this makes no sense at all. (not trying to be funny, just don't understan the post.)

[Thorn777]

when you ow money to a bank, instead of getting a raise because you have been told raises are equally bad as unions, then you are a serf to those obligations you made instead. quite legally even. if this then takes 2 jobs and no spare-time to participate in whatever miniscule field of politics actually out there to represent your demographic, then your not this idealized "middleclass", but another unit out there just trying to get by and being as productive as possible.

all thats necessary, biden, obama, geithner, paulsson, and summers are out there to "represent you"

"Not when you have a completely deluded population feeling guilty about their own debt enslavement. No questions and allot of sweat."

[Guy]

If anything the middle class has disturbed the efficiency of democracy as they're generally regarded as the "squeezed middle." They're easily lured in by populist parties, as seen in the UK, as they're pragmatic and the short-term policies which are aimed at the politically-unaware middle are bait in terms of vote winning - there's a reason the middle class is most often referred to as the "swinging voters."

Also, what would you regard as the "middle class"? The term has become so deluded that nowadays it seem it's most often used to refer to working class people with enough wealth to purchase things beyond their means.

I know: let's abolish class altogether.

[Vanoi]

I know: let's abolish class altogether.

Socities naturally create classes. You cannot abolish the class system. There will always be classes for as long as their is people.

[Guy]

Socities naturally create classes. You cannot abolish the class system. There will always be classes for as long as their is people.

Ah, hegemony. You so naive!

[Vanoi]

Ah, hegemony. You so naive!

Thanks for addressing my point.

You should take a few sociology classes. Socities throughout history have always been putting people into classes. Its called social stratification. This is from its Wikipedia page:

In sociology, social stratification is a concept involving the "classification of persons into groups based on shared socio-economic conditions ... a relational set of inequalities with economic, social, political and ideological dimensions

You can't stop human nature.

[karo]

when you ow money to a bank, instead of getting a raise because you have been told raises are equally bad as unions, then you are a serf to those obligations you made instead. quite legally even. if this then takes 2 jobs and no spare-time to participate in whatever miniscule field of politics actually out there to represent your demographic, then your not this idealized "middleclass", but another unit out there just trying to get by and being as productive as possible.

all thats necessary, biden, obama, geithner, paulsson, and summers are out there to "represent you"

"Not when you have a completely deluded population feeling guilty about their own debt enslavement. No questions and allot of sweat."

No one forces you to take a loan so why are you acting like it is fait accompli and everyone has a debt and most work to only pay the debt. And how many percent of the people need work two jobs to pay of loans when the median income in the US is around 50.000? If you have to work two jobs to only pay of a debt then it means you couldn't afford to get the loan and it is your fault.
Direct democracy can only work when you have a very small population and not millions and in some countries hundreds of millions. So that is why people chose others to go and represent them.
But I still don't see how this has anything to do with having a strong middle class and democracy?