Depleted Uranium Ammunition

[Sumonious]

I'd like to know the real truth behind depleted uranium ammunition. You're probably heard that they used as tank ammunition. In war, the advantages of Depleted Uranium munitions are many. However many people oppose its use.

The United States and its NATO allies maintain that Depleted Uranium dust (a by-product) doesn't cause cancer and birth defects, however, 136 countries are citing other research saying that it does.
I have heard a lot of story on how birth deflect suddenly raise in Iraq after the war. The same as in the Balkan. Yet there are also convincing articles how depleted uranium ammunition used by Nato are really irradiated.
Which side do you think is right?


Here is the wikipedia entry:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

[Sphere]

I thought the concerns were due to the inherent toxic nature of uranium as a heavy metal, not any actual radiation.

[Admiral Piett]

I thought the concerns were due to the inherent toxic nature of uranium as a heavy metal, not any actual radiation.

This. It's toxicity is far more concerning than its weak radioactivity.

[Sumonious]

Woa, hold on. So I've been delusional. I thought that the danger of DUA is due to radiation. Damn, those Red Alert game gets every thing all wrong . So DUA is a heavy metal then, how does it causes all the medical problem? Does it poison the water source or crop?

[Nikitn]

In dustform it can stay in an area for a long time. It can also screw up watersupply, because (I think) water cleaning facilities aren't able to clean out substances dissolved on the molecular level (except common types of light metals and salts)

[Valiant Champion]

An interesting observation I made when researching hydrogen-nickel fusion was the admission that low temperature fusion could be a way to neutralise the radioactive heavy metals of depleted uranium fission waste products. This seems to suggest that it's radioactive dangers are a known issue.

Keep in mind also that although the battlefields are covered in depleted uranium from A10s, apache's and tanks..... In the US we don't find depleted uranium in landfills. Instead it is buried deep underground and the area where it is buried is fenced off with serious warning signs. An issue so serious that scientists have speculated finding ways to make the signs durable and readable in the case of the collapse of civilization and reading. In other words that cave men or alien's could read the signs.

[Jack04]

Just about everything you need to know, the IAEA have on their website: http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/features/du/du_qaa.shtml

13. What are the possible radiation hazards from handling DU projectiles?
The contact dose rate from a DU penetrator is about 2 mSv per hour, primarily from beta particle decay from DU progeny. At this dose rate it is unlikely that prolonged contact with a DU penetrator would lead to skin burns (erythema) or any other acute radiation effect. Nevertheless, the dose that could be delivered from handling of DU ammunitions is such that the exposure and handling time should be kept to a minimum and protective apparel (gloves should be worn A public information campaign may, therefore, be required to ensure that people avoid handling the projectiles. This should form part of any risk assessment and such precautions should depend on the scope and number of ammunitions used in an area.

An interesting observation I made when researching hydrogen-nickel fusion was the admission that low temperature fusion could be a way to neutralise the radioactive heavy metals of depleted uranium fission waste products. This seems to suggest that it's radioactive dangers are a known issue.

Depleted uranium is, in essence, just a less active form of natural uranium, so stored in sufficient quantities (you'd need somewhere in the region of twice the equivalent of natural uranium, by mass, to achieve the same level of radioactivity, even more to get an equivalent level of natural fission) it will produce some of the same fission products. A large number of which are heavy metals and are, therefore, not overly pleasant.

[Adar]

An interesting observation I made when researching hydrogen-nickel fusion was the admission that low temperature fusion could be a way to neutralise the radioactive heavy metals of depleted uranium fission waste products. This seems to suggest that it's radioactive dangers are a known issue.

Keep in mind also that although the battlefields are covered in depleted uranium from A10s, apache's and tanks..... In the US we don't find depleted uranium in landfills. Instead it is buried deep underground and the area where it is buried is fenced off with serious warning signs. An issue so serious that scientists have speculated finding ways to make the signs durable and readable in the case of the collapse of civilization and reading. In other words that cave men or alien's could read the signs.

I think you are confusing "depleted" uranium rods from nuclear power plants (enriched uranium with a huge amount of fission protects which makes it highly radioactive but unsuitable for nuclear reactors) with depleted uranium used in weapons (natural uranium where most U-235 has been removed to create the enriched uranium used in nuclear power plants)

[Valiant Champion]

I think you are confusing "depleted" uranium rods from nuclear power plants (enriched uranium with a huge amount of fission protects which makes it highly radioactive but unsuitable for nuclear reactors) with depleted uranium used in weapons (natural uranium where most U-235 has been removed to create the enriched uranium used in nuclear power plants)

not confused, just misunderstood. I meant the waste product of uranium fission... depleted uranium.

if it is naturally harvested uranium ore they are using in these munitions, than why do they call it "depleted"? depleted refers to that it was originally something much more energetic which now is much less so do to the radioactive breakdown.

If depleted is only a misnomer than I suggest our government change the name cause it is very scathing.

[Sphere]

Woa, hold on. So I've been delusional. I thought that the danger of DUA is due to radiation. Damn, those Red Alert game gets every thing all wrong . So DUA is a heavy metal then, how does it causes all the medical problem?

Being an internet doctor I can expalin.

Toxic metals are ones that are soluable and can swap places in protien structures with normal metals used in the body (like iron, potassium and zinc etc), which although such metals can fit in the same place in the protein, that protein can no longer carry out the same funciton. This can start to disrupt body systems and cause illness or death.

Radioactivity is causing harm on a much smaller scale, on the scale of DNA. It is high energy sub-atomic particles damaging pieces of DNA, which can cause cells to turn into tumors and lead to various forms of cancer. The body actually has a system to resist radioactive damage (which isn't 100% understood), and so we can safely tolerate low levels of radiation basically indefinitely, most studies show spent DU rounds are well within this safe level of radiation.

[Sphere]

if it is naturally harvested uranium ore they are using in these munitions, than why do they call it "depleted"? depleted refers to that it was originally something much more energetic which now is much less so do to the radioactive breakdown.

If depleted is only a misnomer than I suggest our government change the name cause it is very scathing.

Being an internet nuclear physicist, I can explain.

The uranium used in munitions is the mostly U-238 (non-radioactive (ish)) uranium left over after natural uranium has had its U-235 (radioactive) extracted during the uranium enrichment process.

Given that in natural uranium only ~1% is the fissile U-235, there is a lot of nearly pure and inert U-238 leftover. US scientists and engineers have done what they do best, and found a way to use this waste material to kill people. It is called "depleted" only because the U-235 has been extracted, and thus is indeed less radioactive than natural uranium.

Spent fuel rods are a completely different thing, and contain a whole mess of elements and isotopes which keeps them radioactive for a long time. Re-using spent fuel rods is called reprocessing.

[Jack04]

Just to clarify slightly, what makes ²³⁵U so useful in fission reactors is its neutron acceptance. Whilst many Uranium isotopes are capable of neutron induced fission, ²³⁵U is the only isotope in which thermal neutron absorption is significant. It is this ²³⁵U isotope to which the enrichment level (enriched/natural/depleted) normally refers and, whilst there is a noticeable difference in activity, it is by no means massive (the IAEA site lists the difference in activity between natural and depleted uranium as being less than a factor of two, which in nuclear terms, ain't a whole lot). So really, all that depleted means is that it cannot realistically undergo a series neutron induced fission events (and therefore, a chain reaction). It doesn't really say all that much about the activity levels.

[Valiant Champion]

It is true (corrected) that most depleted uranium used by the military comes from the enrichment process but some tests of US tank armor detected trace elements of other radioactive isotopes suggesting that "reactor depleted" reprocessed uranium was used. Of course that does not prove that the munitions had the reprocessed uranium.

It all depends on what is cheaper. considering that tank armor is a long term asset, while munitions will be sprayed all over the battlefield. So if tank armor if made out of the "expensive stuff" than the ammunition must be made of the cheap stuff (hopefully depleted uranium from enrichment).

[Adar]

It is true (corrected) that most depleted uranium used by the military comes from the enrichment process but some tests of US tank armor detected trace elements of other radioactive isotopes suggesting that "reactor depleted" reprocessed uranium was used. Of course that does not prove that the munitions had the reprocessed uranium.

It all depends on what is cheaper. considering that tank armor is a long term asset, while munitions will be sprayed all over the battlefield. So if tank armor if made out of the "expensive stuff" than the ammunition must be made of the cheap stuff (hopefully depleted uranium from enrichment).

I also checked IAEAs site regarding impurities and the state:

7. There are reports of impurities in DU. What are they?

The vast majority of depleted uranium used by the US Department of Defense comes from the enrichment of natural uranium and is provided by the US Department of Energy. However, between the 1950s and 1970s, the US Department of Energy enriched some reprocessed uranium extracted from spent reactor fuel in order to reclaim the U-235 that did not fission. Unlike natural uranium, the reprocessed uranium contained anthropogenic (man-made) radionuclides including the uranium isotope U-236, small amounts of transuranics (elements heavier than uranium, such as neptunium, plutonium and americium) and fission products such as technetium-99. As a result, the depleted uranium by-product from the enrichment of reprocessed uranium also contained these anthropogenic radionuclides, albeit at very low levels. During the enrichment of reprocessed uranium, the inside surfaces of the equipment also became coated with these anthropogenic radionuclides and as this same equipment was used for the enrichment of natural uranium, these radionuclides later contaminated the DU produced from the enrichment of natural uranium as well. The exact amount is not known. Radiochemical analysis of depleted uranium samples indicate that these trace impurities are in the parts per billion level and result in less than a one percent increase in the radiation dose from the depleted uranium. The US Nuclear Regulatory Commission was aware of the existence of these trace contaminants in DU and determined them to be safe. The presence of U-236 and Pu-239/240 in depleted uranium has been confirmed by analyses of penetrators collected during the UNEP-led mission to Kosovo in November 2000. The activity concentration of U-236 in the penetrators was of the order of 60000 Bq per kg, while the activity concentration of plutonium varied from 0.8 to 12.87 Bq per kg.
Further information on this can be found at:

• http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/du_ii/du_ii_s03.htm#2 and
  http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/du_ii/du_ii_s03.htm#TAB C - Properties and Characteristics of DU.
• http://www.nato.int.
• http://www.iaea.org/NewsCenter/Focus/DU/finalreport.pdf.

[Sphere]

So Can I safely conclude that DUA doesn't actually cause harm? Are they really made from left-over mined Uranium ore and not from used Uranium fuel ?

Heavy metal poisioning is nothing to scoff at. It can have absolutely horrible results such as complete insanity and death.

The powdering of DU when used as a munition does raise concerns, especially since heavy metals get concentrated as they move up the food chain. It is something well worth studying and monitoring.

[Spike]

Heavy metal poisioning is nothing to scoff at. It can have absolutely horrible results such as complete insanity and death.

The powdering of DU when used as a munition does raise concerns, especially since heavy metals get concentrated as they move up the food chain. It is something well worth studying and monitoring.

yep, and for those who don't know about that, it will be blamed to radiation

heavy metal poisonings need water to be contaminated, so as long as it used on arid/desert climates, there shouldn't be too much problems (that will be very bad if used on humid south america, for the opposite example)

[xcorps]

To OP:

It is worth noting (as described and sourced by other in past thread in the PM and PA) that those statistics of the increased in birth defects are inaccurate due to record keeping procedures prior to the war. In addition, there were 3 chemical munitions factories in Fallujah located on the river and a couple of storage sites for chemical warheads. Nobody has made any effort to correlate the increases in cancers and birth defects to the presence of the chemical munitions.

[Spike]

as allready stated by Jack04, Depleted Uranium is mixture of Uranium metals that allready stripped from it's lighter radioactive U-235 isotope, leaving non-radioactive U-238 isotope that was a considerably toxic heavy metal

no the Depleted uranium won't carry anymore radioactive radiation compared to your usual neon bulb, so, you may want to ask why US use depleted uranium shells?

the reason is definitely not because of radiation, in fact, it's because Uranium are one of the most dense metals, and thus, can deliver far more kinetic energy than your conventional shells. Depleted uranium shots is heavier AND has more pernetation power. Plus, they are not only dense, but also hard enough to not much deformed by impacts, something that was a very advantage when it's used in anti-materiel rifles

why uranium? not other heavy metal? simple, U-238 is the byproduct of Nuclear reactor fuel cycle, it's cheaper to use them rather than use other heavy metals

[Sumonious]

So Can I safely conclude that DUA doesn't actually cause harm? Are they really made from left-over mined Uranium ore and not from used Uranium fuel ?

[Spike]

So Can I safely conclude that DUA doesn't actually cause harm? Are they really made from left-over mined Uranium ore and not from used Uranium fuel ?

no, they are still as harmful as your average heavy metal , not because their radiation but it's more into the heavy metal poisonings