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Thread: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

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  1. #1
    Sharpe's Company's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    I've been watching the debates between the Republicans and every so often I hear a mention of that Jewish State in Palestine.

    And I have to ask the question, just what is the fascination of the Pharisees in the United States?



    I just can't imagine any politician in any other country talk that way about a Foreign state.

    So, What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?
    Justice 4 Charlene
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  2. #2

    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    Steady on old man.

    We're not exactly angels in this regard. In fact much of the bollocks surrounding the whole Arab-Israeli conflict can be traced right back to our door. We ruled the whole place and went on to promise it to more than one group of people......

  3. #3
    Nevins's Avatar Semper Gumby
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    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    Because its what the voters want and America is a republic?
    Client of the honorable Gertrudius!

  4. #4

    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    Florida?

  5. #5

    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    It's because there are a lot of evangelical Christians in the US who think that if they help Israel, God will bless the United States.

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    Imperial's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthias View Post
    It's because there are a lot of evangelical Christians in the US who think that if they help Israel, God will bless the United States.

    http://www.cufi.org/site/PageServer

    This is madness. God always blesses the US....whatever that means anyways.

  7. #7

    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthias View Post
    It's because there are a lot of evangelical Christians in the US who think that if they help Israel, God will bless the United States.

    http://www.cufi.org/site/PageServer
    They are only one element. Do you really think they make up the 48% of pro-Israel Democrats or 60% of pro-Israel independents? There are also plenty on non-religious conservatives that are pro-Israel as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  8. #8

    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthias View Post
    It's because there are a lot of evangelical Christians in the US who think that if they help Israel, God will bless the United States.

    http://www.cufi.org/site/PageServer
    They are on the false path, crusades is the way that America will be blessed. And not by helping one heathen state supress the other.

    But well Americans have strayed off from the true faith, and started their little heretical sects here and there.

    Where is the inquisition when you need them?

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    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gattsu View Post
    They are on the false path, crusades is the way that America will be blessed. And not by helping one heathen state supress the other.

    But well Americans have strayed off from the true faith, and started their little heretical sects here and there.

    Where is the inquisition when you need them?
    These people believe that the Nation of Israel is inhabited by Jews yeah

    Protestant Churches of Great Britain and Northern Ireland take a very different interpretation of that, for example Jesus said that Christians are the Seed of Abraham and thus the Nation of Israel, the Seed of Jacob is Christendom!

    Every Christian knows that, except for the jew infected United States and now the Catholic Church I'm lead to believe.

    Thank the Lord, Calvinism is still strong in the UK and the King James lives on.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    Well, according to one passage in the New Testament, he will especially bless us, I guess.

    Plus, it dovetails with some "End Timers" as well.

    So, politically, you get a lot out of supporting Israel mindlessly. There aren't many pro-Palestenian voters on the other hand.

  11. #11

    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    In theory, Christ will book a return flight if Solomon's Temple gets rebuilt. I think Balfour may have actually believed that,besides being somewhat sentimental towards Jews and their historical plight - enough Americans certainly feel that way to create an effective lobbying force in Washington.
    Eats, shoots, and leaves.

  12. #12

    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    So we're clear on the fact that a large plurality of Americans believe they should support Israel. The question becomes, why do they think that?
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  13. #13

    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    So we're clear on the fact that a large plurality of Americans believe they should support Israel. The question becomes, why do they think that?
    According to an article in the peer-reviewed journal Security Studies:
    Affinity for Israel is broad and crosscutting, and among voters who feel strongly about policy toward Israel, support is even more intensely expressed. While strategic calculations and the strength of aipac and other pro-Israel groups undoubtedly play some role, public affinity and sympathy for Israel is the main factor driving u.s. policy, and this support is based on a sense of shared values, a common culture, and similar ideological leanings. The public sees Israel as a member of the West and as a democratic state surrounded by a sea of hostile autocracies, and this perception has only been strengthened since September 11 as Americans came to view Israel's efforts to deal with terrorism in a more empathetic light. In granting support to Israel, u.s. politicians are truly reflecting a value judgment made by their constituents.
    "Value Judgment: Why Do Americans Support Israel?" Michael J. Koplow Security Studies Vol. 20, Iss. 2, 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  14. #14

    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    Quote Originally Posted by sumskilz View Post
    According to an article in the peer-reviewed journal Security Studies:
    "this support is based on a sense of shared values, a common culture, and similar ideological leanings."
    "Value Judgment: Why Do Americans Support Israel?" Michael J. Koplow Security Studies Vol. 20, Iss. 2, 2011
    Actually, now that I think about it, how did Americans come to believe in this? How many have ever been to Israel, or how many times does it appear in our popular media beyond a simple name drop in political intrigue films? How many even follow Israeli politics or know anything at all about Israeli culture or ideological leanings?

  15. #15

    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sher Khan View Post
    Actually, now that I think about it, how did Americans come to believe in this? How many have ever been to Israel, or how many times does it appear in our popular media beyond a simple name drop in political intrigue films? How many even follow Israeli politics or know anything at all about Israeli culture or ideological leanings?
    At any given time you can walk into any book store or any movie store and find multiple films and pieces of literature based around either the Holocaust, Jew/Israeli victimization, Israeli/Mossad heroism, etc. That has a profound effect on the public's psychology, especially with films, considering the image-based culture America has become and the emotional value of images.

    Outside of a film festival flick that gets minimal exposure, when's the last time you saw a film based around the illegal occupation and cultural genocide of Palestine? When's the last time you remember seeing such a film that came out of Hollywood?

    I rest my case.
    Once a political decision has been reached to proceed with internal disturbances in Syria, CIA is prepared, and SIS (MI6) will attempt to mount minor sabotage and coup de main [sic] incidents within Syria, working through contacts with individuals. Incidents should not be concentrated in Damascus. [A] necessary degree of fear, [...] frontier incidents and [staged] border clashes [will] provide a pretext for intervention. The CIA and SIS should use [...] capabilities in both psychological and action fields to augment tension. [Funding should be provided for a] Free Syria Committee [and arms should be supplied to] political factions with paramilitary or other actionist capabilities.
    ~ Joint US-UK leaked Intelligence Document, 1957

  16. #16

    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    So we're clear on the fact that a large plurality of Americans believe they should support Israel. The question becomes, why do they think that?
    Propaganda.
    Once a political decision has been reached to proceed with internal disturbances in Syria, CIA is prepared, and SIS (MI6) will attempt to mount minor sabotage and coup de main [sic] incidents within Syria, working through contacts with individuals. Incidents should not be concentrated in Damascus. [A] necessary degree of fear, [...] frontier incidents and [staged] border clashes [will] provide a pretext for intervention. The CIA and SIS should use [...] capabilities in both psychological and action fields to augment tension. [Funding should be provided for a] Free Syria Committee [and arms should be supplied to] political factions with paramilitary or other actionist capabilities.
    ~ Joint US-UK leaked Intelligence Document, 1957

  17. #17
    Imperial's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    Quote Originally Posted by YukonTrooper View Post
    Propaganda.
    Or ignorance...probably both.

  18. #18

    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    Quote Originally Posted by YukonTrooper View Post
    Propaganda.
    Quote Originally Posted by Imperial View Post
    Or ignorance...probably both.
    Wow, some clever points here. Propaganda disseminated by who? Ignorance of what? Your trite answers have demonstrated your deeply nuanced understanding of the issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  19. #19

    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

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  20. #20
    The_Valiant's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: What is the U.S's Obligation to that Jewish State?

    I hate to bring this up, but I have a legitimate concern: it is primarily race and religion. Many are afraid of Islam, and are also unfamiliar with Arab people. Israelis are white and share a common "Judeo-Christian" identity, which most Americans identify with. It's a sad fact of American life, unfortunately, but I encounter them here even in liberal Chicago.
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