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  1. #1

    Default Achieving Security in America

    First of all, I would like to say that I understand why the American people have become so paranoid after 9/11. They've never witnessed an attack on their own homeland in ages, so they react in shock and start viewing Middle Eastern people as a threat to their "freedoms".

    However logical this may be, things start getting very bizarre when I overhear Americans discussing how Muslims hate America because they hate/envy American "freedoms". Next they start talking about how they should invade Iran, because Iran will supply terrorists with suitcase nukes to blow up Los Angeles.

    The first proposition doesn't make any sense because "hating freedoms" is not an actual motive for hostility. For example, if you go to court and argue that your neighbor blew up your house because he hated your freedoms, you would look pretty damn stupid. The second proposition doesn't make sense because it came from an episode of "24", and it’s not a real threat. A more likely scenario would be that terrorists obtained snukes from the U.S. government, because they actually have such weapons.

    This brings me to my next point. America view multiple foreign countries as threats, but as a foreigner, I actually view America as a bigger threat. If my government doesn't support American interests, they can stage a CIA backed coup to remove a democratically elected government, in favor of a tyrant who actually support American interests. If that doesn't work, they can simply invade my nation, and if that still doesn't work, they can threaten the use of nuclear weapons. In that regard, America is a threat to my sovereignty, security, and freedoms.

    War in the Middle East will not stop terrorism, it will only provoke it. Bin Laden has stated that his motives for attacking the WTC were that America undermined the security of Muslim nations and supported Israel. Why then, do people still advocate war with Iran, when that would be dangerous to American security?

    Secondly, as an American resident, I can safely say domestic terrorism is a bigger threat than foreign terrorism. To start, inner city crime in America is ridiculous. I feel more scared of gang violence and drive by shootings than I am of Muslim extremists. Crime is so bad that there were talks of deploying the National Guard to Chicago. A related problem is that the public education system fails in low class areas. It does nothing to help its students refine his/her intellect, and become more tolerant, knowledgeable, non-violent member of society, unless the student was already good to begin with.

    If the government is so intent on keeping Americans secure, why don't they stop putting money into funding foreign occupation, which will only provoke foreign acts of terror, and instead put that money into combating inner city violence, which is a bigger threat in the first place?
    Last edited by Shams al-Ma'rifa; January 24, 2012 at 09:04 AM.


  2. #2

    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Actually, it doesn't make sense because you can't miniaturize a nuclear weapon to suitcase size. At least not one with enough shielding to protect a carrier for more than ten minutes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    How about we define the rights that allow a government to say that isn't within my freedom.

  3. #3
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder View Post
    Actually, it doesn't make sense because you can't miniaturize a nuclear weapon to suitcase size. At least not one with enough shielding to protect a carrier for more than ten minutes.
    When they say Suit-case sized they mean the bomb itself is the size of a suitcase but it is never transported in a suitcase. It would be put in a truck with shielding around the bomb to prevent leaks. You dont need anything smaller than a truck since the radius of the bombs impact range is enormous.

    and Scott that is unfortunately a lot of men in Afghanistan and Pakistan who live in poverty and religion is their only escape. They have pretty much been growing up with radical versions of Islam and to change this it would be very difficult. My proposal though would be to remove people from villages and to relocate families to separate villages... perhaps create new ones. Give them all new starts...
    Last edited by MathiasOfAthens; January 24, 2012 at 03:52 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder View Post
    Actually, it doesn't make sense because you can't miniaturize a nuclear weapon to suitcase size. At least not one with enough shielding to protect a carrier for more than ten minutes.
    You certainly can fit one in a suitcase; or even better a back pack. However it must be either very weak or very inefficient.

  5. #5
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
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    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Quote Originally Posted by mkesadaran View Post
    First of all, I would like to say that I understand why the American people have become so paranoid after 9/11.
    People? People really are not. If you mean the government, then that is the way you chose to view things. I really dont see it. There job is to keep people safe, or they lose their job. They have the best idea of the realities of doing so, and what that encompasses. You would probably find much of the same things being done in other countries.

    As for the recent laws that increase law enforcements abilities to track terrorists, they are one step further than the Bush laws. The same laws that have never been used against a private citizen not involved in terrorism.

    Quote Originally Posted by mkesadaran View Post
    things start getting very bizarre when I overhear Americans discussing how Muslims hate America because they hate/envy American "freedoms". Next they start talking about how they should invade Iran, because Iran will supply terrorists with suitcase nukes to blow up Los Angeles.
    How many people have you heard? And stop making things up. Do you have any idea the amount of restraint the US has shown towards Iran?


    Quote Originally Posted by mkesadaran View Post
    America views foreigners as a threat
    Last edited by mrmouth; January 23, 2012 at 02:22 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Achieving Security in America



    DEM AY'RABS HATE OUR FREEDOMS DURR

  7. #7

    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Enemy of the State View Post


    DEM AY'RABS HATE OUR FREEDOMS DURR
    Very good video. Rep+

  8. #8
    Vanoi's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Enemy of the State View Post


    DEM AY'RABS HATE OUR FREEDOMS DURR
    Love the mis-informaiton in that video.

  9. #9
    Nevins's Avatar Semper Gumby
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    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Enemy of the State View Post


    DEM AY'RABS HATE OUR FREEDOMS DURR
    This atrocious ad again? Lets all draw absurd parallels and speak with an alarming voice while booming music plays.

    When people say they "hate our freedoms" they are right for all the wrong reasons. The "terrorists" could really care less what Americans are doing in America, its the rapid social and political change that the increasingly integrated ME nations are experiencing that troubles them. Their reaction is to say "try and integrate our culture with yours and see what happens".
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevins View Post
    This atrocious ad again? Lets all draw absurd parallels and speak with an alarming voice while booming music plays.

    When people say they "hate our freedoms" they are right for all the wrong reasons. The "terrorists" could really care less what Americans are doing in America, its the rapid social and political change that the increasingly integrated ME nations are experiencing that troubles them. Their reaction is to say "try and integrate our culture with yours and see what happens".
    A shame people trying to kickstart "the rapid social and political change" said countries badly need have often found themselves in dank cells having funny stuff put where the sun don't shine. Sometimes with a little help from the treasuries of our respective nations.

    Hakuna matata eh?

  11. #11
    Macunaíma's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Enemy of the State View Post


    DEM AY'RABS HATE OUR FREEDOMS DURR
    I usually don't give a about USA elections, but now I want this guy to win. Unless, of course, he changes when he gets to office, and keep his troops of chinese men in Texas.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Quote Originally Posted by BarnabyJones View Post
    People? People really are not. If you mean the government, then that is the way you chose to view things. I really dont see it. There job is to keep people safe, or they lose their job. They have the best idea of the realities of doing so, and what that encompasses. You would probably find much of the same things being done in other countries.
    No.. I mean the people are paranoid. I'm from Indonesia, where terrorism is more rampant. Bombs going off in buildings used to be a common occurrence. Even today, you can't go into a mall without security checking your car for bombs, even if you have little kids in the passenger seat. However, because Indonesia is a Muslim majority country, we don't go on a sword rattling witch hunt against Muslims like people do in America. We simply treat it as a criminal act, and get our special forces to take care of the perpetrators.

    In America, some people use 9/11 as an excuse to advocate bombing random countries simply because Muslims live there. People are so brainwashed that they just go along with whatever the politicians tell them. It doesn't even make any sense because they act like America is being singled out by Muslim terrorists because America is special in some way. What they don't realize is that Muslim countries are as as much a victim of terrorist attacks as any other western country, if not more. Hell, Iran hates the Taliban and Al-Qaeda so much that they even supplied the U.S. forces with intelligence on how to defeat them. It was their idea to ally with the Northern Alliance to topple the Taliban regime in Afghanistan.

    As you can see, terrorism is a criminal act, and its motives are of a political nature. It has little to do with the assumption that Muslims hate American freedoms, like FOX news would like us to think. I'm concerned that people react so much to fear, that they support actions which actually undermine their own security.

    As for the recent laws that increase law enforcements abilities to track terrorists, they are one step further than the Bush laws. The same laws that have never been used against a private citizen not involved in terrorism.
    It is wrong to just start randomly profiling people because they share the same ethnicity as a couple of terrorists. I mean look at this, this is wrong:



    What's next, are we going to start randomly arresting black people and hispanics because cops think they look like criminals.. Oh wait..

    How many people have you heard? And stop making things up. Do you have any idea the amount of restraint the US has shown towards Iran?
    I'm not making this up.. Have you seen some neo-cons when they talk. I wouldn't even call them neo-cons, most are just regular misinformed Americans.

    Concerning Iran, the way I see it, America got themselves into this mess when they overthrew a democratically elected government which wanted to nationalize Iran's oil, in favor of an oppressive monarch who supported American interests. Then when the Iranian people started retaliating, America acts as if it was an innocent victim.

    The American government is just like any other imperial nation in history, except that it's blatantly going out of its way to lie to as many people as possible about its ambitions. If America really wanted to tackle terrorism as a response to 9/11, why don't they invade Saudi Arabia, where Osama and the hijackers came from. Besides, if you want to talk about freedom hating peoples, why don't we start with the country where this problem is most blatant. The reason is the the Saudis actually support American interests.


  13. #13
    Mr. Scott's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    The difference is that these terrorists follow a moral ethics that are completely screwed up. I don't care if they hide under the pretense of cultural diversity and "different religion".

    THIS
    WARNING: GRAPHIC
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Is unacceptable, regardless of what your cultures says.

    Those insurgents in Afghanistan hardly even understand the concept of "Afghanistan". They are not fighting to defend their country, people, or any concept of freedom and human civility, they're fighting to defend their twisted morals that should have long ago been condemned to the human dustbin of idiocy.

    THAT is what differentiates the scenario in that video, and the current situation in Afghanistan.
    Last edited by Mr. Scott; January 23, 2012 at 11:01 PM.
    “When my information changes, I alter my conclusions.” ― John Maynard Keynes

  14. #14
    Macunaíma's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Scott View Post
    The difference is that these terrorists follow a moral ethics that are completely screwed up. I don't care if they hide under the pretense of cultural diversity and "different religion".

    THIS
    WARNING: GRAPHIC
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Is unacceptable, regardless of what your cultures says.

    Those insurgents in Afghanistan hardly even understand the concept of "Afghanistan". They are not fighting to defend their country, people, or any concept of freedom and human civility, they're fighting to defend their twisted morals that should have long ago been condemned to the human dustbin of idiocy.

    THAT is what differentiates the scenario in that video, and the current situation in Afghanistan.
    And falls to the Good-Guy-USA to defend the western christian world! Wow, they are such heroes, we're blessed that they agree on killing lots of civilians just for the world's peace, and the death of cultures who are different from ours!

  15. #15
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Destroying the faces of women with acid is not an acceptable cultural practice. Nor was it the reason we went into Afghanistan.

  16. #16
    Macunaíma's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    Destroying the faces of women with acid is not an acceptable cultural practice. Nor was it the reason we went into Afghanistan.
    I'm not familiar with the picture. Is it a true islamic cultural practice, or just some retarded fanatics just like there are in any religion?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Quote Originally Posted by mindOverdrive View Post
    I'm not familiar with the picture. Is it a true islamic cultural practice, or just some retarded fanatics just like there are in any religion?
    It's cultural in that it happens within a particular culture, but it's not related to Islam and it's not widely condoned. It's also usually punished severely, sometimes with acid.

    EDIT: I should have been more specific. It's most common in south Asia, and is often in retaliation for refusal of a marriage proposal.
    Last edited by sumskilz; January 24, 2012 at 07:18 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enros View Post
    You don't seem to be familiar with how the burden of proof works in when discussing social justice. It's not like science where it lies on the one making the claim. If someone claims to be oppressed, they don't have to prove it.


  18. #18
    Mr. Scott's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    Destroying the faces of women with acid is not an acceptable cultural practice. Nor was it the reason we went into Afghanistan.
    I know its not the reason. But I'm saying THAT is the differentiating factor between a would be American insurgent, and the current insurgents in Afghanistan. Its the most crucial fallacy in the video's comparison.
    Last edited by Mr. Scott; January 24, 2012 at 07:58 AM.
    “When my information changes, I alter my conclusions.” ― John Maynard Keynes

  19. #19
    Macunaíma's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Scott View Post
    I know its not the reason. But I'm saying THAT is the differentiating factor between a would be American insurgent, and the current insurgents in Afghanistan. Its the most crucial fallacy in the video's comparison.
    You're saying that USA would be different because there isn't some guys around there that throw acid in people's faces? What, do you think an insurgent in Afghanistan necessarily is an extremist who treats women like animals? When people who don't have anything to do in your country come and blow up your house, no matter what kind of person you are, you have the right to be angry.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Achieving Security in America

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Scott View Post
    I know its not the reason. But I'm saying THAT is the differentiating factor between a would be American insurgent, and the current insurgents in Afghanistan. Its the most crucial fallacy in the video's comparison.
    While they may be culturally apart, your not going to solve anything in Afghanistan by killing them - your just going to reinforce their hatred towards America. Also, i doubt you have any evidence that suggests that the majority of these insurgents believe it is acceptable to throw acid onto women.
    "we're way way pre-alpha and what that means is there is loads of features not just in terms of the graphics but also in terms of the combat and animations that actually aren't in the game yet.So the final game is actually gonna look way way better than this!” - James Russell, CA
    Just like the elephant animation, this Carthage scenario is actually in the game, it just has a small percantage factor for showing up, that's all...

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