I could use some help - Gondor economy and growth.

**Jon Metters** · January 21, 2012, 12:57 PM

Hello,

I just started playing - and first I'd like to say BRAVO! I'd been hoping for a game like this for quite some time.

So I'm looking for help. I've played a fair amount of Total War games - a lot of Rome and quite a bit of Medieval.

I'm trying to play a Gondor campaign (settings on medium difficulty). I just can't seem to strike a balance between growing the economy, expanding my territories, and building up my forces. I've tried quite a few things that have worked for me before in the TW games and I don't seem to be getting anywhere.

The lack of merchants seems to be part of my problem. I think I'm too stuck on my tried and true methods.

Anything you could suggest to get me on the right track would be greatly apppreciated.

Help me Obi-Wan, you're my only hope...

Best,

Jon Metters

**Larkin** · January 21, 2012, 01:12 PM

Yeah, it's a pretty big challenge. If you splurge too much cash, you'll end up broke, and then have the Harad invade you from the south and Mordor from the east.

It's basically a matter of defending your frontiers like crazy until you reach the "armies at full readiness" stage (usually pops around turn 40). Your money should be spent on getting like ONE structure at a time, so not building roads in every settlement right off the bat, for example, as well as getting enough troops til your're comfortable to defend. Check your finances every time you're about to end your turn, to ensure you're still in the black. If not, raise taxes somewhere, disband a unit, demolish a building or cancel construction as necessary.

Expand to the far west, where the rebel settlement is, and the forest north of Minas Tirith. There's also a rebel settlement with no troops in it to the north of your lands that Rohan won't always take, if you can spare a unit to go capture it. Only once your elite units pop should you then take Osgiliath and take on the evil powers. Also, try to get a trade deal with Isengard, and whoever else you can, selling your maps etc where possible.

**Bastard King** · January 21, 2012, 01:39 PM

Very first thing you should do is move your capital to Linhir, or the castle north west of it (I forgot its name). You lose 1000 less each turn from corruption. Capture the rebel settlement in the far west and then send the extra units stationed there to the front lines. Leave one general there. Take East Osgiliath and Cair Andros. You can take Henneth Annun and the settlement south of Osgiliath at your own pace. Take your units from Linhir, Dol Amroth etc. and take the island and then Barad Harn. Barad Harn is where you should hold Harad until your confident enough to expand.

Always keep Minas Tirith on high taxes. It's already a huge city so population growth isnt as important. Build paved roads at Pelargir, Minas Tirith, and Dol Amroth. They give you 200-300 more income for each city. You can build mines as well if you want. DO NOT BUILD MARKETS. They usually only give you 10-50 extra income. It's better to invest in farms in the early game. ALWAYS CHECK YOUR INCOME SCROLL BEFORE BUILDING AN ECONOMIC BUILDING. It'll show you how much your income will increase by. Build the cheapest and most profitable buildings first, and do not build in every settlement. Focus on Minas Tirith, Dol Amroth and Pelargir. Maybe Linhir as well as it is usually the first to get to Large Town. Also do not adopt new generals unless they have amazing stats.

By turn 10 I was making a reasonable profit of 2-3k each turn. By turn 20-30 I began hovering around 20-30k. This is when I started building most of my barracks, stables and ranges, and only in my front line settlements and my major cities. I play a slower game and dont like to rush, so by turn 50 I control Ithilien. i have 3/4 a stack heading to Minas Morgul to take it. I have a stack moving east from Barad Harn taking Harad's settlements. As well as another stack from South Ithilien moving south to attack Harad from the North. This stack is full of gold and silver chevroned troops from all my battles with mordor.

This is my first Gondor campaign, and I'm playing on H/H.

**Larkin** · January 21, 2012, 01:42 PM

Interesting thought about the capital, I actually just used Denethor as a general, but that could work too.

The only downside to advancing into Mordor is that you'll have an invasion called against you if you have East Osgiliath. If you don't, it usually gets called against the Dale or Rohan.

**Ngugi** · January 21, 2012, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Bastard King

Very first thing you should do is move your capital to Linhir, or the castle north west of it (I forgot its name). You lose 1000 less each turn from corruption.

Just a note on this one; Not the very first thing? It will cost you 5000 as you the first turn should use to economical buildings. Roads are slow but really good for trade. Some turn later, 2 or 3, your can switch though

**beermugcarl** · January 21, 2012, 01:52 PM

i just simply invest in roads at the start

change the capital to tarnost (but then again i reduced the capital change cost to 1000)

invest in the main 4

which is minas tirith, peligar, dol amroth and...the one where you get lossarnarch axemen from

make a small half stack of generals bodyguards aswell

i use the family members as governers, who despite what people say are very good for sticking in cities halfway across the map (reduces corruption in the city) and just kick ass with the boring generals. can normally take all ithilien on vh/vh by turn...50-60??? then take morgal...and well...hold...and kick harad in the face....several times...and then laugh at it...

**Bastard King** · January 21, 2012, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by beermugcarl

i use the family members as governers, who despite what people say are very good for sticking in cities halfway across the map (reduces corruption in the city) and just kick ass with the boring generals.

But the family members have most of the custom general units. Plus their stats get better through battle. In my campaign, Denethor is a 10 star general, and Faramir is a 7-8 star general. Boromir isn't too great because I put him in the same army as Denethor. I also moved Imrahil up to the front lines because he has a bodyguard of Swan Knights. I only have a governor in the far west of gondor, and the governors with the best economic traits go into my major cities or settlements I've captured with low culture.

Plus high chivalry generals dont help pop growth too much so theres no point putting them in your small villages.

I've adopted only 1-2 generals but lately Ive keep getting adoption notices with generals having 3-4 combat stars, 4-5 chivalry, and 8-9 loyalty. Is it a random generator, or am i doing something that is making their stats better?

**beermugcarl** · January 21, 2012, 02:11 PM

yes but i always get very sad when my family members die...and they always will (though it did mean i eneded up with imrahil having a kings bodyguard...a recharging 90 ish swan knights...turns out it can pretty much hold of harad by itself

but yes i do understand the need to use them but equally i just dont like them dying and have the belief that standard generals may as well be mercenaries

**Jon Metters** · January 22, 2012, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by Bastard King

Very first thing you should do is move your capital to Linhir, or the castle north west of it (I forgot its name). You lose 1000 less each turn from corruption. Capture the rebel settlement in the far west and then send the extra units stationed there to the front lines. Leave one general there. Take East Osgiliath and Cair Andros. You can take Henneth Annun and the settlement south of Osgiliath at your own pace. Take your units from Linhir, Dol Amroth etc. and take the island and then Barad Harn. Barad Harn is where you should hold Harad until your confident enough to expand.

Always keep Minas Tirith on high taxes. It's already a huge city so population growth isnt as important. Build paved roads at Pelargir, Minas Tirith, and Dol Amroth. They give you 200-300 more income for each city. You can build mines as well if you want. DO NOT BUILD MARKETS. They usually only give you 10-50 extra income. It's better to invest in farms in the early game. ALWAYS CHECK YOUR INCOME SCROLL BEFORE BUILDING AN ECONOMIC BUILDING. It'll show you how much your income will increase by. Build the cheapest and most profitable buildings first, and do not build in every settlement. Focus on Minas Tirith, Dol Amroth and Pelargir. Maybe Linhir as well as it is usually the first to get to Large Town. Also do not adopt new generals unless they have amazing stats.

By turn 10 I was making a reasonable profit of 2-3k each turn. By turn 20-30 I began hovering around 20-30k. This is when I started building most of my barracks, stables and ranges, and only in my front line settlements and my major cities. I play a slower game and dont like to rush, so by turn 50 I control Ithilien. i have 3/4 a stack heading to Minas Morgul to take it. I have a stack moving east from Barad Harn taking Harad's settlements. As well as another stack from South Ithilien moving south to attack Harad from the North. This stack is full of gold and silver chevroned troops from all my battles with mordor.

This is my first Gondor campaign, and I'm playing on H/H.

Thanks to all - I tried this last night with huge improvements! Question. By turn 20-30, when you were hovering around 20-30k - how much profit were you making per turn? (approx) Were you getting PROFITS of 20-30k per turn? If so, I kneel at your altar.

Also - question to all: What's the best unit to match against the Mordor Spearmen? They seem to throw tons of them at me - and I'm wondering what you folks do to best them. Any tricks or tips?

Thanks again!!!

**Bastard King** · January 22, 2012, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Jon Metters

Thanks to all - I tried this last night with huge improvements! Question. By turn 20-30, when you were hovering around 20-30k - how much profit were you making per turn? (approx) Were you getting PROFITS of 20-30k per turn? If so, I kneel at your altar.

Also - question to all: What's the best unit to match against the Mordor Spearmen? They seem to throw tons of them at me - and I'm wondering what you folks do to best them. Any tricks or tips?

Thanks again!!!

My income per turn fluctuates based on how much im building. If I don't have any construction costs for that turn its usually 4-6k.

Also, I use cavalry and attack spearmen from the rear. I usually kill the general first though.

**Bastard King** · January 21, 2012, 01:50 PM

It's a 5000 fee but you make that money back by turn 5-6 because of decreased corruption. If you move it at a later turn you've already lost 2-3 k from corruption and if you splurged on construction in the first turn, it may be hard for you to get the initial 5k to relocate your capital. Imo, its better to move it as soon as possible.

**Jon Metters** · January 21, 2012, 02:29 PM

This is fab. Exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks to all! Please keep it coming if you have other ideas.

Best,

Jon Metters

**Larkin** · January 21, 2012, 03:43 PM

Do you guys try to get the islands? The one near the mainland seems obvious, though the Harad usually go for that too, but I found that taking the one near the Harad is quite effective as they hardly ever try to get it back!

**p00pwater** · January 21, 2012, 05:44 PM

before i took harondor or ithilen, i had took tolbar and held on to linhir, then i sent a good host down and captured that island west of umbar, and south, havens (worth huge coin), and north umbar they are easy to hold. from there, harad was decimated financially without its major city, so i just sent half stacks around sacking haradrim settlements wherever there was one that was weak ( attacking coastal settlements from fleets with artillery are the easiest, but by then harada had almost none left but inland ones). then, taking and holding ithilen and and minas morgul were timed using a denethor/boromir/faramir army. then harad is an easy gallabant while you leisurely hold off mordor.

i play vh/vh

**Jon Metters** · January 22, 2012, 09:28 AM

Also - please let me know if I should be posting my questions in a different spot. I'm also new to forums, and the way they work.

**Minas Moth** · January 22, 2012, 09:35 AM

Also - question to all: What's the best unit to match against the Mordor Spearmen? They seem to throw tons of them at me - and I'm wondering what you folks do to best them. Any tricks or tips?

your sword militia from the front, and then general bodyguard charge from the back. works like a charm... Hammer and anvil tactics. it helps if you kill their general for you will most likely get massive rout from mordor maggots...

oh, it will help if you descrease their morale with fire arrows, but mind that you won't kill as many enemies as with normal arrows.

on the side note. when playing 3.1 with gondor and fighting harad, i used 2 units of lossarnach axemen. in battle i used them on the flanks, with general bodyguard guarding from their serpent cavalry. axemen moved down haradrim and southron spearmen. 2 units, together killed roughly 500-600 haradrim per battle with minimal losses.

Also - please let me know if I should be posting my questions in a different spot. I'm also new to forums, and the way they work.

welcome to this community... no problem. however, in the future you could ask this kind of questions in the Official Ask Questions thread

cheers

**Resurrection** · January 22, 2012, 10:12 AM

Easy victory as Gondor:

- Gather all your generals together in Anorien (they are not needed for settlement growth, on the contrary as they often contract it).
- Put a ship at the Pelargir land bridge so Harad won't harass your there (they won't even try for many turns though).
- Take the far western settlement and then put some basic garrison south of Linhir by the Anduin estuary to defend against Harad. (you may try to take Barad Harn instead as suggested above)
- Put one unit by the Dagorlad Anduin land bridge so nobody passes while you nail Mordor in Ithilien.

Now with all this and your generals assembled charge Mordor, taking Cair Andros, Eastern Osgiliath, Henneth Annun BUT AVOID that Ithilien castle to the south (it's rebel anyway and good decoy for Harad). Instead push for Minas Ithil with all your generals:

- Garrison script will make the Mordor sally out but their stupidity will hand you easy victory.
- Then take Cirith Ungol and then march to Gorgoroth but beware of the one spawned army to aid Mordor in trouble which has trolls. For that bring Boromir and some infantry you got from the start to keep them busy and charge out all the rest of that stack.

In the meanwhile take Faramir and the other archer-general and few rangers to Dagorlad to protect from the north taking it possibly.

After that Gorgoroth battle again make the garrison script aid you taking Barad Dur instantly (instead of sieging it for 12 turns). This should be doable by turn 20 or 15 if you are super fast. I did it by turn 23 because I sieged Cair Andros for 9 turns foolishly... Then take the rest of Mordor at your own leisure but do not take too long as Harad will be on your back by about turn 30. They will try to push through mouth of Anduin and through Ithilien so you will have to get your forces split and after few initial skirmishes you will start pushing them back to Harondor and eventually to desert beyond. Keep some watch by lake Nurn as Rhun has stupid habit of sending one-unit armies harrasing you there...

With this strategy you don't need any units (but for garrisons) so you have plenty of cash to build up and you even crush your arch-enemy right from the start. ALSO ACCEPT ALL OFFERS OF ADOPTIONS AS YOU SIMPLY NEEEEEEED MOOOORE GENERALS. :-) I even managed to kill off Harad before they got Mumakil and due to Last Stand Script bug (see bugs) I didn't even had to fight the ones spawned by it. By turn 50 you could destroy Harad. Then it's up to you, chase for one ring, make the poor good factions right again by returning them their lost lands, sit back, wait for Aragon and slowly rebuild Osgiliath. And if you are like me send a stack or too to liberate Arnor (in my game completely overrun by Gundaband save Hobbiton once I arrived there).

Also note that Gondorian high tier troops are insanely good. I even managed to get the similar results with them as I did with just bodyguard army so they are THAT good. Very useful for defeating invasions which you will no doubt receive against Minas Anor. Speaking of which there is no need for change of capital either with this strategy...