Real Combat/Real Recruitment 1.4.1 by Point Blank UPDATED to 3.2 Vanilla-version 1.5 RELEASED

[Point Blank]

Yes fair comment about the shields. RC2.0 has shields used by low-class units as -1, but some sort of bonus for unit/equipment quality would be appropriate. It already exists for missile and melee weapon damage and armor effectiveness.

[Nemesis_GR]

Just released version 1.2c for vannila and baron's which has fixed secondary HPs for all units.Check OP.HF

[Malanthor]

Good changes, i gave light infantry 1.0 ground_speed medium infantry 0.95 and heavy 0.9 myself in addition to the allready existing animation differences, but it was just a cheap change, realistically speaking you should take into account armor/shield/weapon and race i reckon but that was to much hassle for me.

Another thing that i wonder abouth is stat_ground, i notice that this system gives medium infantry -1 in all terrain and heavy infantry -2 in all terrain. Same goes for cavalry, it goes down by 1 from light to medium and from medium to heavy. So i dont see the logic here really. Why exactly are medium and heavy infantry/cavalry worse in all sorts of terrain compared to light infantry? This in effect just means that LI have a flat +2 to attack in all sort of terrain, if i understand it correctly.
Why not just give them higher stats then, i dont get why they need a "bonus" in certain terrain, the greater strain of wearing armor is allready accounted for in heat modifiers and the speed at which they move. Are there any situations where the 4 types of terrain dont count like in sieges or something?

In my oppinion all infantry/cavalry should have the same bonus in all sort of terrain except for 2 handers and pikes which would have problems handling their weapons effectivly in a forest, same goes for archers which would be hampered by bad range of sight and trees etc beeing in the way of their long range shots. And offcource cavalry in forest should take heavy penalties going up from light to heavy. If there is some brilliant reason i havent seen id like someone to tell me.

By the way what do you think of uppgrading the armor and type of smiths of eregion?

[Nemesis_GR]

You have a point about stat_ground.Only PB can answer this...

About smiths of eregion i agree.Imo they should be classed Special-Noldor and have an armor of 15(full plate 13+noldor 2 -1 for no helm).
Mithlonds nobles armor maybe should be changed(their new version seems less armored so the +4 mithril chestplate is not exactly accurate).Elven full plate is enough imo...

BUT i havent changed those two units already because i dont know exactly how they get recruited.I havent played high Elves in a while.Could someone enlighten me?Especially about the smiths guild.

Btw what are your thoughts on the armor of homeguard warriors,eregion smiths and mithlond nobles?What do they look like to you?

[Malanthor]

I think 15 armor full plate for smiths should be fitting, it looks like a full plate with no helmet, or some sort of odd head cap.
Mithlonds do look less armored yeah but i figured they might have some fancy dandy noble stuff under there.
Homeguards im not sure abouth, and im going to bed so ill look it over tomorrow.

edit: id say that homeguard has some sort of breastplate, its hard to say whats on the arms and legs due to the clothes but could be whatever. Id go for something in the medium range probably.
Smiths id give something heavy, their armor looks a little odd, its not a typical armor look, but given that they are super smiths i reckon they wouldent want to be seen in something shabby, hehe. So like i said above id prob give them a full plate like you said.
And as for the nobles its impossibly to see what they have below their shirt. It could look like some sort of scales at some parts, but i think i would minimum give them an armor value of 13 and prob more seeing the standard heavy infantry spearmen/swordmen have 13, and the nobles would likely have better gear.
The problem with many of these armors are that they dont fit nicely into the table, you cant see clearly what they have and even then one armor piece of scales/or whatnot could be totally different from another piece in terms of quality etc.

[Point Blank]

stat ground is not applied in every terrain, only scrub sand desert snow. Not in for example open fields or city streets.

[Nemesis_GR]

Version 1.3 for Vanilla and Barons is up.Check OP for dl and changelog.hf all

Edit:i am thinking of changing the armor upgrade system to fit 3.1.

[Malanthor]

stat ground is not applied in every terrain, only scrub sand desert snow. Not in for example open fields or city streets.

Aha, that is interesting. So are the majority of terrain of the 4 types or not would you say? Personally i dont know what constitutes the various terrains besides what is obvious. I dont know where the line goes.

[Nemesis_GR]

I also released version 1.3Armor (only for vannila for now) which has different armor system.(basically all armor upgrades -1 level with some exceptions.Maybe it fits the 3.1 system better.Btw all armor upgrades cost 75 since they all give the same armor bonus regardless of armor lvl or type).

[Malanthor]

I dont quite understand what this armor version does, have you modifed armor_ug_levels to be at a lower lvl? What is the idea behind this if i may ask?

[Nemesis_GR]

Yes.The idea is that RC system was made with a 7-tier smiths system,5 for all factions +2 special(isengard steel,mithril) and tata 3.1 has a 5 tier smiths system and only gondor and dwarves get the lvl5 smith.Anyway it is optional.I like it because it makes smiths worth investing etc.

[Malanthor]

yeah i noticed they have phalanx, i could play with em just fine in custom though.

[Nemesis_GR]

@Hanny I also started a Gondor campaign and it looks good.Being able to upgrade militia from the start in Minas Tirith is nice.Generally smiths are more useful now for all factions.Especially the ones that dont get heavy armored units they can upgrade what they have a lot faster.
I didnt understand what u said about weapons upgrades...Afaik there is only weapons upgrade through the swordsmiths guild.

@Malanthor In my custom battle they couldnt move and they caused a ctd in the campaign.Dont know maybe it is just me.Anyway i ll fix it.

[Hanny]

All weapon uprgrades can be assigned to buildings, be it missile or the different close combat types, its undevolped avenue.

[Nemesis_GR]

As i said i know that there is only weapon upgrade and only for melee weapons.What exactly are you talking about?Am i missing something?:S

[Lord Plankton]

What he means (i think) is that weapon upgrades aren't necessarily bound to the guilds. In call of warhammer for example there are differen't non-guild buildings for each weapon type (ranged, meele and firearm). I don't think that more than one upgrade level is possible in the med II engine though. I guess his point is, that you could make similar buildings for tatw as well (except for the firearm thing of course) in CoW they are called fletcher's workshop and weaponsmith or something like that. As i am a big fan of upgrades, i would apreciate that too and am looking forward to a baron's version of your armor upgrade system.


Great submod btw.

[Hanny]

As i said i know that there is only weapon upgrade and only for melee weapons.What exactly are you talking about?Am i missing something?:S

All the bonuses in a custom battle can be assigned to a building, so +1 to +3 blade, +1 to +3 next weapon type is allowed to be incorported, this adds the other side of the matrix of armour upgrades, weapon upgrades to increase attack levels. Some Blacksmiths could be a universal steel improved, while some specific buildings provide a bonus, lots of ways to do it.

Prob a tutorial on a full list of what you can include in the tutorial section.

weapon_melee_blade – weapon_melee_blade 1
Upgrades the weapons of all melee troops by 1.

Visually, this mod gives you a different look for each upgrade http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=513030

[Cincinatus]

I uploaded this and added the Rhudaur units to Gundabad, adjusted the elite human units of Isengard as they did not seem to have superior or elite bonuses. Though the Orcs usually have subtraction unit stats for most units versus humans. Human units in orc factions, and especially elite ones, I imagine should not, even more so when they are also body guard units of two of the faction commanders. The attack of the Guards of the Orthanc, for example is no better than generic spearmen or even militia men, and yet they are supposed to be a fairly elite, rare, expensive unit, that is also a bodyguard troop of Saruman. The Veterans of Dunlending are not much better, with the attack of basic axemen, yet they too are supposed to be experienced warriors and also bodyguards of Yagthuk. I added an elite bonus to Orthanc Guards, and a superior bonus to the Veterans.

I have added actual Raiders. Infantry in smaller squads that carry bows and swords. I used the uruk hai archers but shortened the range, raised the defense, and I lowered the melee of the uruk hai archers and kept the range and defense. This makes a nice new unit and adds to the immersion and realism of the mod, since you now have smaller units of uruks who have some cross infantry and missile unit use. Their cost is higher than swordsmen but the upkeep is much lower given their smaller unit size. This makes sense in accord with both the movie and the books so that Saruman could have small raider squads of Uruk-Hai and not have to wait 10 turns or more.

I have also changed the Rohan scouts to be Rohan Horsemen Militia with a larger unit number and a slightly less melee and charge. I found it odd their charge was higher than more elite horsemen units. It makes more sense that militia for Rohan would in fact be horsemen anyway and not infantry. The Militia I changed to, light spearmen. I made the dismounted royal guard with a higher attack and the dismounted lancer with a higher attack but the Eorling swordsmen with a lower attack.

This adds a unit to Isengard, Uruk Hai Raiders, and changes the former Raider unit to Uruk-Hai Swordsmen. These changes are also in line with a older Lord of the Rings mod that had alot of units people frequently ask for and RC/RR type stats.

Gundabad gets 3 new units, Rhudaur Axemen, Rhudaur Scouts, and Hillmen that they did not have before except as Invasion Call merc units. With the additional units mod, several evil factions have very comparatively small rosters anyway. The new raider unit alone adds a great deal to the immersion effect.

It would be nice in the future to see other ideas from the old RTW LOTR mod updated and added to thi one. These ideas would most certainly help to balance the factions out more with better and larger rosters. Some might be used from the RTW Fourth Age mod as well. One thing I liked about that mod aside from some cross over unit recruitment was the elite unique buildings in the homelands where one of 3 buildings constructed allowed for one of 3 very unique units. The only drawback was this took until almost the end of the game when most lands are conquered.

[Point Blank]

Using the melee weapon upgrade is a bad idea, because it doesn't add +1 to weapon attack, it adds about 6, which is massively unbalancing given the low attack values in RC. This was verified by testing.

[Lord Plankton]

Using the melee weapon upgrade is a bad idea, because it doesn't add +1 to weapon attack, it adds about 6, which is massively unbalancing given the low attack values in RC. This was verified by testing.

Is it supposed to be like that? In other mods those upgrades always seemed to me as if they were only adding 1 point. I remember having a swordsmiths guild in some mod in one of my castles and i'm pretty sure it didn't add 6 dmage.

Also Hanny is referring to an upgrade system whith possible upgrades +1, +2 and +3 like it was in rome but i don't think it works that way anymore. The mediéval II upgrade system is binary meaning either it's upgraded or not, without different levels, at least for weapons. Correct me if I'm mistaken.