SV or SS help

[Mamertine]

Hello, I am new to these forums but I wanted to get some info about this mod without being called a troll or starting a flame war.

I am having trouble finding videos for CII:SV so I can compare it to the SS mod. I am going to assume the people here like SV better for obvious reasons, but why?

The easy answer is to tell me to just play both, but I am busy and cannot make an accurate assessment without playing a few factions a good portion of the way in for both mods. Given my work schedule that is a good month or two of game time since I do not play everyday.

I know about the different periods and have seen some unit previews, but I am looking for more gameplay videos or a really nice unit guide like EB does for rtw, which is my favorite mod for rtw.

I played SS, probably version 2.1 or something a long time ago before Kingdoms and was not that impressed, has it changed that much for the better? Can you link me to some gameplay videos for SV or better yet, if you played both give me your take on them both compared to vanilla and each other. Any and all help is appreciated.

[Ixor_Drakar]

Well I dont think there are any game play vids of SV. I havent played SS that much myself but in comparison to vanilla there are more cities to conquer, more factions with unique rosters(more if you wait until the next version but that may be awhile), many new buildings including a goverment type system(if you like EB you will like that) and other buildings like the Crusader state that can only be built in the holy land by Frankish factions allowing crusader units to be built. All in all it adds alot over vanilla and is a very fun mod. Oh and did I forget to mention the many different eras it has each with accurate faction changes in both name and starting locations?

[Ultimus]

Somewhere in the forums I remember people saying about SS that Americas are not accessible? Is this true?what about SV?Can we go to america?

I recently started playing at Dark Age era and let me tell you, with the accurate faction names, new buildings, costs for taking your armies to the field I already feel like I'm the king
And we know it's good to be the king

[Vipman]

Somewhere in the forums I remember people saying about SS that Americas are not accessible? Is this true?what about SV?Can we go to america?

yes, SS has removed the americas completely, but in SV it's still there... but you still have to wait until about the 1500's to build carracks and go there (in all eras).

[Ultimus]

yes, SS has removed the americas completely, but in SV it's still there... but you still have to wait until about the 1500's to build carracks and go there (in all eras).

Thanks for the reply I would rep you if I could

[Mamertine]

Ok, so SS removed the Americas. Honestly, that is not a big loss for me.

But what about gameplay? There were rtw mods that looked great on paper and I didn't like the gameplay at all because all units had so much base defense you couldn't enjoy the mod (it is a popular rtw mod, too).

So how are they different in terms of gameplay? Or just make a pro/con list.

Are the sieges attacking/defending different?

Is the AI different in the two? How so?

Is the 2 handed issue resolved in either?

Are the new factions added overkill?

Any original factions nerfed?

Are all the Catholic factions just carbon copies with different colors like in Vanilla?

Of the two mods, which one adds more unique units? (Most important question that needs to be answered)

Are factions more balanced in either mods? (Second most important)

Etc.

Anyone info about either mod is helpful. And again, I read up on both. So what did you experience through gameplay and not descriptions and stats?

Any help would be appreciated.

[Latin Knight]

I see you posted the same question in SS forums, i'll repeat what some people said: you could take both mods and try some turns and decide what you think its better. In my opinion, i love SS, played countless hours of it, and believe its one of the best TW mods ever. Nevertheless, i see myself playing SV more, and even choose it to write my AAR.

So, to your questions.

1. gameplay: I'd say ChivII allows more of a turtling style game - factions have more military/agent costs, economies are smaller (coherent with Medieval era, imho); armies aren't exactly cheap (specially the top tier, noble units). Also, rebels are kinda stronger, but not in a bad way: it certainly gets more gratifying to conquer a rebel settlement (not like vanilla ), but aren't uber-powered led by 10 command generals that plague Deus Lo Vult mod. Also, i'd say it has some emphasis on micromanaging, with a vast building browser (much larger and interesting than any Medieval II mod i've seen).

Another important point is that religious agents are much more nerfed in this game. If you want to convert a province, you better have a Cardinal or high level Imam, because the priests are incredibly slow to convert. You'll give much more importance to upgrading religious buildings than simply spamming agents. In gameplay that's obviously important, as you'll play as Venice, for example, you won't conquer all of the Byzantine Empire in 10 turns, because religious unrest will be great and durable, forcing you to consolidate each conquest (staying there with a larger garrison for more turns, building churches, etc. - so, no blitzing against faction with different religions ) That's obviously a pro for those (like me) who enjoy slow-paced campaigns.

There is also one feature i don't know if exists in any other mod, that is kinda simple, but really impressed me. When playing with a faction that historically participated on the Crusades (England, France, Venice, etc.), in Early and High Middle Age campaigns, if you conquer a settlement in the Holy Land (Jerusalem, Antioch), you'll have a new building called "Crusader State proclamation", which will increase trade, religion and allow you to recruit Crusader troops (spearmen, crusader knights). Sometimes it feels like you are playing with two different factions, one in Europe with your regular roster and one in the Holy Land, with Crusading troops.

2. Sieges are different, in comparison to vanilla, for one simple reason: garrison script. Just like DLV, when you or the AI factions besiege a rebel or enemy faction settlement, next turn its army will be bolstered by some 5-10 units, normally low quality militia (to simulate the peasantry running inside the walls when an invader comes), but it prevents what happened in vanilla, that you could take a city with a general and one unit of spearmen.

3. Not sure if the CAI is different. Seems the same of vanilla, to me. I've seen factions do stupid decisions (Spain commits a full stack against a settlement in the middle of France, despite being overwhelmed by the Moors; English fleets that blockade a port in Italy and cause war). About the BAI, it also doesn't seem very clever to me (same as vanilla, in my opinion).

4. Don't know about the 2 hand issue.

5. New factions... overkill. Well, one thing i can say about the new factions is that there are many that begin with just one or two settlements (Portugal, Aragon), and are bordered by extremely powerful neighbors (Moors). To these factions, the game has a "horde" feature, similar to BI and the vanilla Mongols and Papal States. If you take their settlement they will become a (weak) horde, and try to resettle in another place. At least you won't see those factions being destroyed by the 10th turn.

6. Nerfed, depends. You should know this mod features 5 different campaigns, with different starting positions. So, the HRE, for example, in the Dark Ages, is fairly pathetic, but in the High Middle Ages is extremely powerful. Byzantines are strong in the Dark Ages, but will be quickly ruined in the Renaissance. In terms of unit balancing, again i cannot provide an answer.

7. Carbon copies, i'd be tempted to say yes, but then, sincerely, most mods are like that, if you check carefully (every mod has: spear militia, sergeant/armored spearmen, sword heavy infantry) . However, just remember every faction has unique units (France with its gendarmes, Sicilians with Siculo-Norman Knights, England with Longbowmen, etc.).

8. Unique units, i'd say Stainless Steel, as it implements many aditional mods, like the entire CBUR, Lithuania and Rusichi rosters. SV, as of now, recycles many vanilla units, but also has units from CBUR and Rusichi. But be aware that, as far as i know, the next version of SV (4.0) will implement those varied unit mods (like the Hungarian one).

9. Balanced factions. Again, for me it greatly depends on the starting positions. Ex: Denmark usually starts with only two provinces and is surrounded by strong rebels. Some factions seem kinda overpowered, like the Muslim factions (the Catholic Spaniards never develop fully because of the Moors, the Turks in many campaigns begin as the largest faction which is bad for the Byzantine, Armenian or Georgian player; and the Fatimids/Mamluks are also strong, good luck if you play as Kingdom of Jerusalem). My greatest concern is, however, about the Balkan factions, such as Hungary, Serbia and Venice, they are usually pathetic, for the rebel settlements around them are very powerful (I've never seen Serbia actually expand, or Venice, which is always bankrupt).

So, that's it. Again, i say you could try both mods, just take some time, play some quick campaigns in each and see for yourself.

[VINC.XXIII]

I've very much enjoyed the Battle for Baltic Submod, I haven't tested the all new version, but I advice to play it if you've installed SS.

About SV3.3, know then the team was reduced to few peoples, and its not very different today. We would need several scripters, coders and unit makers to cover perfectly the 540 years of game

If you see what are our new basic models(Rusichi, BC..etc) you would enjoy any of our new generic levies. Same if different textures(different factions) share the same 3D model. The 4.0's version will not include vanilla units.

and, we have no time for cyber-conflicts between TWC fellows

[Iguanaonastick]

Latin Knight: Most mods have similar units for western European factions, maybe. Probably because those factions did historically field very similar armies. But if you take a mod like Broken Crescent which is set in the middle east and India, you find far more variety. And if you take a fantasy mod like Call of Warhammer there won't be an armoured sergeant in sight... but okay, that's getting rather off-topic.

As for choosing mods, a lot probably comes down to what style of combat you prefer. I haven't played Stainless Steel much, but when I did I found its cavalry to be rather overpowered for example. They're still very strong here, but not as domineering. I find that if I do not enjoy the battles in a mod it can be brilliantly done otherwise but I'll still lose interest quickly. (Case in point: Third Age Total War)