Byzantines do they have anything good?

[alaios]

Dear all,
I would like to play the byzantines (I am finishing the campaign now with the london troops) and I am wondering if the byzantines have anything good. I found most of theirs troops being of moderate value and their neighborhoods (in italy) and the turks much better.

a. Which are the strongest of their troops?
b. How good are they or how much they suck?
c. Is it possible to add some custom made units to improve their arsenal with some mod? For example some more options in artillery would be great.

I would like to thank you in advance for your help

B.R
Alex

P.S
d. Can someon explain me in the expansion if there are byzantines and how good are they?

[King William the Conqueror]

their infantry and cavalry are great

[diez]

Byzantine empire is one of the strongest factions in the early/high game.
Here are the strongest units:
Varangian Guard,2handed axemen.one of the best 2handed units in the game,if not the best.they can beat every other infantry unit except conquistadores(spain,portugal late game only) and christian guard(moors high era).

Dism.Latinkon:Shielded heavy infantry unit.Slightly worse than chivalric knights of the west,but still a powerful.They will mostly support your varangian guards.

Dism.Lancers/Byz.Infantry:they are the same unit statisticly with the exception that 1 of them has one more trait but costs 40 florins more.excellent supportive heavy infantry.

Cavalry:
Kataphraktoi:Very strong and heavily armored cavaly.They can beat most of their enemies in melee due to their armor-piercing maces,which they have as a secondary to use during the melee.

Latinkon:Not heavily armored and good in melee as the Kataphraktoi,but they can perform deadly charges.

Alan Light Cavalry:This is mercenary unit only,that you get later(i think) in the game.The best light cavalry unit.It can beat most of the enemy heavy cavalry too,but it requires skill in order to do well with it.Not recommended if you are new to the game.

Vardariotai:Horse-archers.They are extremely fast,superior in ranged combat,can make a good stand in melee or give a good finishing blow.Pick targets that are hard to beat in melee,so you can soften them.

Archers:
Now here's the only weakness of byzantium.They dont have any very good archer unit like crossbowmen or longbowmen.although they have some capable units.

Trebizond Archers:Useful in the early game,and very good in it only.DO NOT LET THEM GO IN MELEE.

Byzantine Guard Archers:Same missile attack value as the above,but they are more heavily armored,so the will make a stand in melee,and they can take more attacks.


About your enemies:
The major enemies are the venetians,hungarians and the turks.
Turks:THEY JUST SUCK.you are stronger than them in every aspect.except the late game because they have musketeers.But you have already destroy them by then.

Venetians:The most capable of your enemies.But still not enough.Your can destroy their infantry their cavalry.but you are a bit weaker in missiles cause of the crossbows.Late game is also tricky because of musketeers,and venetian heavy infantry.But you can destroy them too soon enough.

Hungariansretty much as the venetians,except the musket thing and the fact that they use horse archers...not anything to be afraid of.

[Aymer de Valence]

I always play as Venice, so i've seen ALOT of Byzantine troopes. They are well balanced; horse archers, heavy cavalry like kataphracts, and versatile infantry

[Aeratus]

I think the short answer is that the Byzantines have weak units in Vanilla.

The Dismounted Latinkon is outclassed by DCK, D. Polish Knight, Armored Swordsman, VHI, Hashashim, D. Christian Guard, etc.

Varangian Guard is outclassed by 1h sword units, because 2h units aren't very good in vanilla.

kataphract is outclassed by almost all other late cavalry, including the Qapukulu which also has AP maces, but with +3 attack and +2 defense, and by other units the Royal Mamluk, Tsar's Guard, and Khan's Guard.

Byzantine Guard archer is ok, but not as good as musketeers and dismounted Dvor.

Artillery is outclassed by other factions that have cannons.

The single unit that is superior is the Vardariotai.

The solution is to play SS 6.4, in which Byzantium has god armies until about 1400. If you're playing in vanilla, Byzantium's roster will be weaker than other faction's.

[diez]

Varangian Guard is outclassed by 1h sword units, because 2h units aren't very good in vanilla.

No.In the 1.3 update the 2handers are ok!I ran some tests.Grassy plain,calm weather,medium difficulty(so one has any advantage) and the varangians easily beat the chivalry knight.I also tried a very hard test,which would give bonuses to the chivalric knights.They varangians destroyed them again,but with heavy casualties.
So,Latinkon doesnt have to beat the chivalric knights,since varangians do the job.But what are the secondaries of the other factions?

France:Some spearmen on the high era,but at late they have dismounted knight,who are still worse than varangians.

Englandismounted knights,that as i mentioned are worse than varangians.Also their primary infantry unit(Armoured Swordsmen)is just the same as the Latinkon.They have some billmen too,but byzantine infantry and dismounted lancers are better

Spain:On the high era they are pretty much weak against you.Their secondary unit after chivalric are some sucky swordsmen that are worse than your 3rd choice of infantry(byz lancers/infantry).On the late game they can easily destroy you..Because,chivalry becomes second to make the way for the conquistadores

HRE:The imperial knights,can easily beaten,and their secondary is just some spearmen.Some capable 2handers at late game but not anything special.

Polandretty much as the above,but the knights are a bit stronger...not a big deal for the varangians...

Hungary:Even their primary infantry is worse than Latinkon.Nothing more to say.

Russia:Berdiche axemen are tricky but worse than varangians.Boyar sons/dism druzina can be tricky but still not enough.Late game you are screwd cause of Musketeers.

Italian factions:Easy win again.Feudal knights are not enough while secondary are just spears again.Beware of the xbows.In the late game venetians get a good infantry unit and pikemen,they are very good,but can be beaten.

Norway:The only faction that is challenging(along with the moors)in the high game.Norse Axemen are a bit worse than varangians but they are capable of serious damage.Chivalric Knights are a pain in the ass,while Husclars can be pretty much the same.

Moors:They have the christian guard,who is the best infantry unit in the high era.They can beat they varangians.But their secondary infantry,is a 1handed unit,as capable,as your 3rd choice(dism lancers,byz inf).So this gives you some good chances.

So most of the enemies lack 2,maybe 3,good infantry units!So even if the opponent has a better primary infantry unit,they dont have a good secondary,so they will be beaten from your latinkon.The exception here is Norway,who are better than you in infantry(with extremely heavy casualties)but still your cavalry is better(at least in the high era).Late era is more difficult because you dont get any new units unlike the other factions.

[Bringer Of Storms]

A thing you should focus on is Horse Archers with the Byzantines. The Varangian Guard are also a very formidable unit. The Byzantines are just really well rounded. Excelling in Cavalry and Infantry. The only down side is that you don't have heavy spearmen for heavy cavalry, and your foot archers aren't the best.

Also. (This only pertains to campaign) You are a huge economic power when you have Constantinople. Send diplomats in every direction getting trade right with everyone. You will rack in a lot of cash. With land and sea cities, you have access to a lot of avenues of trade. Constantinople is easily your most important city.

Edit: The above poster is totally and completely correct. Although the Byzantines aren't as weak as he makes them out to be. They are a little hindered. (I play so much SS I almost forget what Vanilla is like.)

[alaios]

what is ss 6.4?

so are the byzantines too weak or not . I do not have the expansion so are good or not. I am getting both type of posts from you.

B.R
Alex

[tudor93]

what is ss 6.4?

so are the byzantines too weak or not . I do not have the expansion so are good or not. I am getting both type of posts from you.

B.R
Alex

believe me, it doesn't matter if their swordsmen, for example, have less attack/deffence, the AI is retarded, even if you are a beginner/casual player you can beat him with militia units on M/M
just don't worry, start a campaign with the Byzantine Empire, they are the best

[Bringer Of Storms]

Lets say they're "handicapped." If you play as them, you will have a challenge for they are lacking in areas. But they aren't so terrible that you will have no chance of a victory.

[Aeratus]

Edit: The above poster is totally and completely correct. Although the Byzantines aren't as weak as he makes them out to be.

Yes, don't get me wrong. The Byzantines aren't that bad. The Dismounted Latinkon has 1 less defense than the DCK, which isn't a big deal. The big picture is that when you're playing the AI, even if the AI has dismounted consuistadores, you can still probably beat them with spear militia.

what is ss 6.4?

SS 6.4 (stainless steel version 6.4) is a modification of M2TW. It is a total overhaul of the units and the factions.

In SS, the Byzantines are godlike in the early period. Their generals are far superior to western generals. One Byzantine general can easily destroy 2 Western European generals, and can practically run through anything. In the later game, the Byzantines are weaker, but they get gunpowder units.

[Aeratus]

I think Byzantines are fun. In fact, I started a vanilla campaign with them last week.

The main problem I'm having is that they aren't as good when fighting multiple stacks of Mongols at once, due to the lack of heavy cavalry. Not a big problem though, because I can just bring in more stacks.

To make up for the general lack of heavy cavalry early on, I usually have 2 family members in the stack.

[Palandiell]

I think Byzantines are fun. In fact, I started a vanilla campaign with them last week.

The main problem I'm having is that they aren't as good when fighting multiple stacks of Mongols at once, due to the lack of heavy cavalry. Not a big problem though, because I can just bring in more stacks.

To make up for the general lack of heavy cavalry early on, I usually have 2 family members in the stack.

katrapachts???? pretty good

[lolIsuck]

I find the Byzantine GB godlike, my entire army got slashed/shot to pieces by 10 units of hungarian horse archers when defending Sofia I think, all left was my general against 5/6 horse archers and I won

[CanadianBacon]

With vanilla Byzzies I pretty much only use horse archers for field battles. Vardariotai+ Skythion+Byz HA = Any infantry heavy western army (e.g. Venice) will be deadmeat. Against Hungarians and Turks when I siege and make them sally and THEN shoot them to bits with HAs. The Byz units are more than capable of defending settlements during a siege. In the gunpowder age, if you use HAs properly you can beat the crap out of those slow and lumbering canons etc. But it takes some practice though.

[PrestigeX]

With byzatines, I typically go for the Cavalry and Infantry - I generally disregard the foot archers n those line of soldiers.

Use your infantry aggressively, Byzantines have lame defensive infantry -- spear milita basically, and their regular spearmen which are the same basically as spear militia.

Run Horse Archers upto the enemy -- moving your infantry to close with theirs.

with Byzans, you don't want to be in the stand-off where archers/xbows are trading volleys - you're out of rage, lack the power, etc.. Byzantine archers are decent, better than some factions - but most of the time u just want to use them for castle/city defense not open field.

Open field, make use of all your Horse Archers -- other than skythion , your H.A. can stand a little hand-to-hand , mostly they're just more resilient if enemy manages to catch your H.A. u can get away with fewer casualties with Byz Cav or Varidotiore

[Aeratus]

In the end, I think that Byz simply wasn't properly done in Vanilla. Your horse archers are better than the Turkish ones, but your heavy cavalry is worse... Doesn't make any sense to me. Also, the lack of gunpowder is historically incorrect.

[Silverheart]

In the end, I think that Byz simply wasn't properly done in Vanilla. Your horse archers are better than the Turkish ones, but your heavy cavalry is worse... Doesn't make any sense to me. Also, the lack of gunpowder is historically incorrect.

It´s there to symbolize how the Byzantine empire relied heavily on foreign troops and mercenaries, and how they lagged behind in the technological development after the high Middle ages.
The Turks, on the other hand, historically became more advanced than the Byzantines after that time, which makes it logical that their late-game heavy cavalry can outmatch the Byzantine ones.
The Byzantines still have good heavy cavalry though - the Latinkon and Cataphractoi are very capable.

My greatest concern is that they should have had an infantry unit more similar to legionaries (at least in appearance).
This is because the Byzantines historically relied on a similar type of legionary-like swordsmen for their main lines (or rather, the part of the main line not made up of foreign mercenaries), and for RP-purposes When I play the Byzantines, I want to imagine the Roman Empire being reborn, and use roman-style tactics on the battlefields - unfortunately, the closest thing to a unit that resembles legionaries in their roster is the Byzantine Infantry...

[El Cid99]

It´s there to symbolize how the Byzantine empire relied heavily on foreign troops and mercenaries, and how they lagged behind in the technological development after the high Middle ages.
The Turks, on the other hand, historically became more advanced than the Byzantines after that time, which makes it logical that their late-game heavy cavalry can outmatch the Byzantine ones.
The Byzantines still have good heavy cavalry though - the Latinkon and Cataphractoi are very capable.

My greatest concern is that they should have had an infantry unit more similar to legionaries (at least in appearance).
This is because the Byzantines historically relied on a similar type of legionary-like swordsmen for their main lines (or rather, the part of the main line not made up of foreign mercenaries), and for RP-purposes When I play the Byzantines, I want to imagine the Roman Empire being reborn, and use roman-style tactics on the battlefields - unfortunately, the closest thing to a unit that resembles legionaries in their roster is the Byzantine Infantry...

If you want to go Roman, use Venice. They get VHI (legionaries), Armoured Segeants/ ISM (auxilia), archers, cavalry, and the Caroccio (the Legion's standard).

Also, the Venetians are historically Romans who fled from the sacking of Rome.

As for Byzzies: fun faction, and their archers (especially the Guards) are good at both ranged and melee. Not as good as dedicated melee units, and worse than Dvor (what isn't?), but can put up a fight. Very useful in a siege defense. A full stack of Trebizond archers in Sofia can easily hold off the Hungarians, with virtually no casualties.

Even so, Turks are better. Better spearmen, better infantry, better cavalry, better archers, equal horse archers, and gunpowder.

[Geoffrey of Villehardouin]

My greatest concern is that they should have had an infantry unit more similar to legionaries (at least in appearance).
This is because the Byzantines historically relied on a similar type of legionary-like swordsmen for their main lines (or rather, the part of the main line not made up of foreign mercenaries), and for RP-purposes When I play the Byzantines, I want to imagine the Roman Empire being reborn, and use roman-style tactics on the battlefields - unfortunately, the closest thing to a unit that resembles legionaries in their roster is the Byzantine Infantry...

On the contrary, Byzantine military manuals indicate that the Byzantine army was constantly adapting not just keeping the old traditions. From the Nikephorean reform to the time of the Komneni, the standard was the spearman, practically their entire infantry was armed with very long spears or a pike-like weapon called menavlion (see the Complete Byzantine Unit Roster), since many of their enemies were Asiatic horsemen not phalanx infantry as in Roman times. Infantry all carried swords as well, of course, and in the Komneni period also maces.They were so formidably armed that in Asia Minor there seem to be only a few recorded examples of any enemy daring to face them in a pitched battle. Most battles were sieges, unless they fell into some ambush.

Unfortunately Vanilla exactly lacks in good spearmen not good swordsmen, although their swordsmen (dismounted lancers) seem capable also against cavalry. Their single biggest drawback, however, is their jazzy purple kit.