Sub-mods in the long run.

[Soul Reapir]

Hey guys, I've not downloaded a single sub-mod to this day. I've been loyal to vanilla all this time. Now the reason for this is because I have always had the interpretation that sub-mods ruin your game if a new version of TATW comes out, meaning you have to either wait for a new version of the sub-mod, or reinstall TATW to get the new vanilla patch. Is this a correct way of seeing it?

The reason I ask now after all this time is because, well Baron's sub-mod looks nothing short of amazing and its kind of really hard to resist. Why doesn't KK add the sub-mod to vanilla? 90% of the features in Baron's sub-mod are optional on turn 1, so I don't get why it isn't attached to the main mod? Perhaps KK himself would like to answer this?

So here is a double question thread for you guys to ponder.....oh and heres hope for ROME 2!!!!!!!!!

[David93]

its slightly true, but having reservations like that, it was a year? more? between 2.1 and 3.1 going by KKs previous success in fixing bugs 3.1 might be the last to 4.1
depending on what the patch does, most submods will simply update, so you would down load their new version. Or you could of course revert to vanilla.

[Moneybags14]

If you are computer illiterate and dont follow instructions then yes they can ruin your TATW vanilla. But this is why you make a backup of your tatw vanilla folder before doing so. Then you can just go back to vanilla whenevet you want.

I am not saying that submods are for everyone though, vanilla itself is amazing. It's just that submods can adhere to a smaller groups interest instead of the million orso ppl who download vanilla.

[Necrontyr]

Barons submod i think enhances the game further making it more accurate, thats in my opinion

[Withwnar]

90% of the features in Baron's sub-mod are optional on turn 1, so I don't get why it isn't attached to the main mod?

For one thing it would increase turn end times. When you decline a submod at the start a lot of the script can kill itself, preventing it from wasting valuable processing power. But it isn't possible to kill everything in that submod so a lot of script monitors continue to fire for the entire campaign lifetime, even though they do nothing.

Also, submods can evolve over time between vanilla releases. This is a good thing, providing new features to play with while we wait for the next TATW version.

[Shocked]

If you've never had the honour of playing RR/RC in previous versions then you've missed out. I say this because it's very unlikely that he'll update for 3.1

[Förster44]

If you've never had the honour of playing RR/RC in previous versions then you've missed out. I say this because it's very unlikely that he'll update for 3.1

What is/was RR/RC?

[cezarip]

What is/was RR/RC?

RR = Real Recruitment
RC = Real Campaign

RR/RC is a mod by Point Blank.

[Dutch-Balrog]

RR = Real Recruitment
RC = Real Combat

RR/RC is a mod by Point Blank.

Edited.

[Ultra123]

i also think that barons mod should be in vanilla, i mean why not? its all optional and so what all those options and slightly longer end turn in return for a of features, if its coz the whole 'he isnt on the team thing', then make him a part of the team that deals with this kind of input


just my 2 pence...

[Bobz]

i also think that barons mod should be in vanilla, i mean why not? its all optional and so what all those options and slightly longer end turn in return for a of features, if its coz the whole 'he isnt on the team thing', then make him a part of the team that deals with this kind of input


just my 2 pence...

If it is going to be all optional anyway, then why the need to include Barons submod in vanilla Third Age? It's only a quick download away for everyone who wishes to play, so there's no need to add extras that many players may not want, when it can remain optional at the choosing to download stage.

[Soul Reapir]

If it is going to be all optional anyway, then why the need to include Barons submod in vanilla Third Age? It's only a quick download away for everyone who wishes to play, so there's no need to add extras that many players may not want, when it can remain optional at the choosing to download stage.

So we dont need to wait for Baron to release a compatible version of the sub-mod for the next vanilla version. And MOST of the optional features Baron's sub-mod includes are features damn near the whole community ask for. So I don't think "many players may not want" is an issue. At the end of the day it would simply make things less complicated while at the same time, adding a lot to the vanilla game. Plus there are many non-hardcore TATW fans that don't even know about sub-mods and are missing out on all the great feature options.

[Bobz]

So we dont need to wait for Baron to release a compatible version of the sub-mod for the next vanilla version. And MOST of the optional features Baron's sub-mod includes are features damn near the whole community ask for. So I don't think "many players may not want" is an issue. At the end of the day it would simply make things less complicated while at the same time, adding a lot to the vanilla game. Plus there are many non-hardcore TATW fans that don't even know about sub-mods and are missing out on all the great feature options.

But on the other hand, we would have to wait longer once King Kong has finished his work for Baron to update, which would push back the release date. I haven't played the submod since 2.1 so I'm not sure what all the features are, but saying most of them are things the whole community wants is far more incorrect than me stating the opposite. Does everyone want things like immortal heroes, faction resurrection or the Total Recruitment? Things like the Corsair invasions have been added individually, so the team already includes parts of the submods.

[Gallus]

If it is going to be all optional anyway, then why the need to include Barons submod in vanilla Third Age? It's only a quick download away for everyone who wishes to play, so there's no need to add extras that many players may not want, when it can remain optional at the choosing to download stage.

It's simple really. ALL of Baron's features are optional. So if you dislike every single one of them you can still play vanilla game with his compilation. The problem with Baron's not being included in vanilla is the compatibility of small submods. If you've ever made a submod you know it takes at least 5 hours to make the most trivial submod and up to 200 hours for a complex submod. And because Baron's is not included in vanilla every modder has to make 2 versions of his submod. Do the math.

[Withwnar]

It's simple really. ALL of Baron's features are optional. So if you dislike every single one of them you can still play vanilla game with his compilation.

But the game will be slower even if you turn them all off. Declining an optional submod doesn't remove it, it just deactivates/avoids any effects that it would have had. The script and other code is still there, slowing down the game.

Yes, making a submod for two environments takes longer than for one, but not twice as long. It is annoying though.

But this is all talking about Baron's. What if it were absorbed into vanilla? Then we would be having the same discussion about some other submod(s) or compilation. If custom settlements were a submod instead of in vanilla already then I'd bet anything that this discussion would be about getting that into vanilla instead. Merging Baron's into vanilla will only solve one compatibility issue.

I hate writing multiple versions of submods but I would take that over slow end times any day.

[Gallus]

End turn times in TATW are nothing compared to those in SS. I think that if a feature is completely optional and/or greatly improves the gameplay (like custom settlements and your Palantiri submod) it should be included in vanilla. Submods like RR/RC and FRoME (even though I think that Vale of Anduin and Dol Guldur should be in the next major vanilla update) should of course stay submods but things like Minas Tirith Trebouchet, Fiefdom submod, and Baron's should definitely be included. And don't think there is a single person who tried Baron's but uninstalled it because of the longer end turn times. I haven't even noticed they were longer.

[cezarip]

... And don't think there is a single person who tried Baron's but uninstalled it because of the longer end turn times. I haven't even noticed they were longer.

Welll, did not really uninstalled it since it was installed in a copy of TATW vanilla. But, I have to admit I don't use it anymore. Almost tripled my waiting time. I don't have a high end comp and it is tooo slow for me.
Baron's mod it's really good and therefore one should try to see if the longer turn times are something he can live with.

[Curufin]

And don't think there is a single person who tried Baron's but uninstalled it because of the longer end turn times. I haven't even noticed they were longer.

*Raises Hand* I have, I use to love Barons mod but the last few versions have just become unplayable, vaniella tatw takes 10 or so seconds a turn, barons submod takes up over 5 minutes a turn, not everyone has a powerful laptop/computer .

[iffi]

Hey guys, I've not downloaded a single sub-mod to this day. I've been loyal to vanilla all this time. Now the reason for this is because I have always had the interpretation that sub-mods ruin your game if a new version of TATW comes out, meaning you have to either wait for a new version of the sub-mod, or reinstall TATW to get the new vanilla patch. Is this a correct way of seeing it?

The reason I ask now after all this time is because, well Baron's sub-mod looks nothing short of amazing and its kind of really hard to resist. Why doesn't KK add the sub-mod to vanilla? 90% of the features in Baron's sub-mod are optional on turn 1, so I don't get why it isn't attached to the main mod?

I played modmods/submods after I had played the 2.1 over umpteen times. And just now I looked at what Baron's 3.1 is offering.

To me it looks like those with limited time at their hands or a shorter attention-span for TATW are the ones that will most benefit from it. For me, there were only a couple of minor things that caught my attention.

Vanilla 3.1 is already vastly different and improved from 2.1 so I think I myself will not need modifications for the next few months at least.

[P.T.]

Baron's submod options are ...optional, but which of the choices are the vanilla ones?
You can accept or reject.
If you reject everything are you playing vanilla?