Dale impossible?

[merchz]

Just wondering if Dale is designed to be impossible on VH/VH, considering that it is a minor faction.

Basicly Rhûn rapes you no matter what you do, they keep pumping armies and sending them at you. At the same time you have the crappiest units in the game?

[cezarip]

For me it's already impossible in H/H so I dropped it. I used to play Dale with FROME at H/VH but now I can't win even at M/M.

[ShockBlast]

It's because of all the scripts plus the fact that Rhun is quite a big faction to begin with.

I still have my Dale campaign ,H/H 3.1 vanilla.I had to do all kinds of things to stay alive,giving one of my settlements to the Dwarves so they will get into conflict with Rhun and then giving one of my settlements to Rhun in exchange for peace.I was once down to 2 settlements ,Dale and the settlement below.After i got the peace i started bying settlements form Rhun,not very lorish but meh and with time i ended up having all Rhovanion.My fatal mistake was not joining the Dwarves while they had the upper hand.It was ridiculous,i had 8 settlements and Rhun 6 yet they had way more money then me and had at least 50% more troops in the field.

Just so i don't lose the campaign i added a lot of money so i can train and develop more,because the Loke regiments where a clear sign of certin defeat.

Do what it takes to stay alive,even give them settlements for peace but don't waste the chance of crippeling them,Hayna gameplay style will help.

[Curufin]

For me it's already impossible in H/H so I dropped it. I used to play Dale with FROME at H/VH but now I can't win even at M/M.

Whilst I'm only playing on hard battles/medium camp ai im on turn 79 and making good progress into rhun terroritry.

Remember to have any chance you must take Uldonavan asap, its the biggest castle and will allow you to create longbowmen, dale swordsmen etc.

Generally I gather every unit, leaving one watchmen in each settlement, then I march take dorwinion leave a watchman and then go and take uldonavan. You really have to hope the dwarves take kugavod, even if rhun take it first the dwarves will keep attacking it.

In the end you'll have one front against rhun, keep a big ass stack in Uldonavan, half a stack in araw and a few men in rhovanost, move the men out of araw if nesscary and use spies and watch towers to keep track of rhuns movement.

From here you can build up decent troops and move down into rhuns land.

[Santana86]

I've played Dale once since 3.1 came out. I didn't notice any particular difficulty playing as them and destroyed Rhun around turn 70.

I might have been lucky with the fact that the dwarves captured Kugavod early and acted as a buffer to Rhun in the north-east, but in my experience they do that quite often. (They have the settlement most of the time I buy map information from them, playing as other factions than Dale)

The first 20 turns in any campaign can make or break your economy. Playing as Dale your aim should be to quickly capture Araw, Uldonavan and Burh Ermanarikis and hold them at the latter settlement with your starting forces.

[cezarip]

I've played Dale once since 3.1 came out. I didn't notice any particular difficulty playing as them and destroyed Rhun around turn 70.

I might have been lucky with the fact that the dwarves captured Kugavod early and acted as a buffer to Rhun in the north-east, but in my experience they do that quite often. (They have the settlement most of the time I buy map information from them, playing as other factions than Dale)

The first 20 turns in any campaign can make or break your economy. Playing as Dale your aim should be to quickly capture Araw, Uldonavan and Burh Ermanarikis and hold them at the latter settlement with your starting forces.

In three campaigns (about 20-25 rounds each, difficulties from VH/VH to M/M) the dwarves have never managed to hold Kugavod. They did besieged it but got beaten every time.
I have, once, managed to conquer the above mentioned settlements. They only went around my flank, got Rhonavost and showed up at Arraw with almost a full stack.
How do you stop even a half stack Rhun when they have 2 generals, 1 dragon regiment, 1 guard regiment plus mass of skirmishers? Even supposing you manage not to loose one man from the starting forces (which is impossible) you can't win this battle.

Whilst I'm only playing on hard battles/medium camp ai im on turn 79 and making good progress into rhun terroritry.

Remember to have any chance you must take Uldonavan asap, its the biggest castle and will allow you to create longbowmen, dale swordsmen etc.

Took it in tour 7-10. It is underdeveloped. Can't recruit any advanced units there, not straight of the bat. And by that time, the money is gone.

[Curufin]

In three campaigns (about 20-25 rounds each, difficulties from VH/VH to M/M) the dwarves have never managed to hold Kugavod. They did besieged it but got beaten every time.

Took it in tour 7-10. It is underdeveloped. Can't recruit any advanced units there, not straight of the bat. And by that time, the money is gone.

Im surprised about the dwarfs, I guess its just pot luck.

Ok yeah it starts undeveloped but is one of the few places that can build decent units. How have you got no money, make sure to build only economic buildings expect in Uldo, Make sure you leave as few men behind your lines as possible, the enemy will send most of their troops at Uldo .

[cezarip]

Im surprised about the dwarfs, I guess its just pot luck.

Ok yeah it starts undeveloped but is one of the few places that can build decent units. How have you got no money, make sure to build only economic buildings expect in Uldo, Make sure you leave as few men behind your lines as possible, the enemy will send most of their troops at Uldo .

I always build roads, farms and the population increase buildings (chicken farm...). Markets only latter as you don't profit much from them at the beginning. I make great use of the Sale of Dale that cuts the building prices. Still, even with minimal recruiting to garrison the 3 conquered provinces, by turn 10 Rhun is killing my army with the starting uber-units. Can't face two general bodyguards and the well armored dragon regiment + the guard unit + 6 units skirmishers without being crushed.

[Santana86]

In three campaigns (about 20-25 rounds each, difficulties from VH/VH to M/M) the dwarves have never managed to hold Kugavod. They did besieged it but got beaten every time.
I have, once, managed to conquer the above mentioned settlements. They only went around my flank, got Rhonavost and showed up at Arraw with almost a full stack.
How do you stop even a half stack Rhun when they have 2 generals, 1 dragon regiment, 1 guard regiment plus mass of skirmishers? Even supposing you manage not to loose one man from the starting forces (which is impossible) you can't win this battle.

1. Well, I guess it was just bad luck for you that they couldn't take Kugavod. I can understand that the north-eastern front would be an extra strain on your forces and economy.

2. I captured Araw, Uldonavan and Burh Ermanarikis without a single casualty, except in Lord Bain's bodyguard. (Lost about half his bodyguard in each siege due to enemy archers) My siege-attack strategy is quite simply use of 2 spies opening the gates and then send Bain inside. He takes out all enemy archers (I find placing Bain on the walls lowers casualties), then the longbowmen enters and takes out infantry. Alternatively, you can send in a general and place him behind a tall building. Then wait for the enemy to exhaust their ammo, shooting in a arc for lousy accuracy.

3. My first battle with Rhun was just outside Uldonavan after it's capture. 1 general with just 2 units of skirmishers. Once again I used my bodyguard (loose formation) as distraction for the skirmishers, while the Dale Swordmasters took on the bodyguard unit.

4. After taking BurhE, I got sieged by a 3/4 stack of Rhun. IIRC, my army now consisted of Bain, 1 HW, 1 Dalesmen, 1/2 Swordmasters unit, 3 Longbowmen and 1 Athala Rangers unit. They sieged, I sallied out and they withdrew to the edge of the map. I sent out my Swordmasters in loose formation to take enemy fire from their cavalry archers + reg archers. Only 2 Swordmasters survived, but Rhun was out of arrows. Then Bain was up, shooting 1 volley and the whole army approached the settlement taking fire from my other archers. Rince and repeat.

5. A secondary army I trained after the start, made their way to Dorwinion. After it's capture, the plan was to take Kugavod, but the dwarves beat me there and held it. Instead I turned around and took Rhovanost, Tirith Thoron and Rhunaer.

[Stylix]

I just completed a campaign as Dale on VH/VH and did not have any particular difficulties taking all of Mordor and owning Rhun.

[tonplan]

I have played two campaigns as Dale. It's not impossible. Capture Uldonavan first and Rhovanion second. Offer peace and rhovanion in exchange for trade rights. Conquer all regions in between and build up your economy. I spent the rest of my campaign smoothing over relations with money until I was ready to wipe Rhun out. The only problem I had was in the second campaign. A crusade was called against my settlement around turn 70. After that it was all downhill.

[joshko]

What everyone said. Another thing to consider is once your Rhun front is secure you can try and take Dol Guldur. The AI usually leaves it unprotected and all invasion will be directed toward there. The Silvan Elves will help fight off invaders and it's easy to defend wilth a decent sized army.

Make sure to send your generals into combat and leave one unit in all but the cities/castles on your front lines. Use Araw as your resupply location for your military along the eastern and souther fronts. Build an invasion army in Uldonavan.
Keep taxes at medium and build economically stimulating buildings in the safe locations. If you're going into the red on a turn up the taxes for that turn untill things stablize.

In my campeign the dwarves were able to take out the north eastern half of Rhun so I guess it was a bit of bad luck at your part. Now that you have an idea of what to do it may be worth starting over if things are really bad.

[Tar-Aldarion]

After some trying and a lot of bad luck I now expand north and west, Framsburg etc., first as Dale (makes Dale more logical as a capital also) for the bit of extra income. It also forces the dwarves to focus on your mutual struggle against Rhun. Because Kugavod is Dwarvish by then I make peace and start to conquer the Rhovanion regions and build up my armies (2, otherwise I can't build those expansive things). Then It's a long march south until they are crushed, never had an invasion though, not even on Isengard when I hel it for more than a hundred turns...

[Spits32]

IF you are having trouble in the beginning with Dwarves not expanding, send a few units and station then next to the dwarven siege (if they send units over that is). They will assault the town with your help, auto-calc if you are lazy, and then town will be theirs. Did this and dwarves started expanding east.

[Lazy]

auto-calc if you are lazy

I never auto-calc! He lies

Play manually and storm the gate!
This way you can keep casualties on your side what will help the dwarves defendeing after you have left ( or got killed )