Surprise, no link between pot and lung cancer

**Red Harvest** · May 24, 2006, 11:43 PM

No link between Pot and Cancer

This might be more correctly placed elsewhere, but I figure it can't be discussed without becoming a political topic. I really didn't expect this. Usually you would imagine a person smoking an unfiltered plant like this would be far more prone to lung cancer.

LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Marijuana smoking does not increase a person's risk of developing lung cancer, according to the findings of a new study at the University of California Los Angeles that surprised even the researchers.

They had expected to find that a history of heavy marijuana use, like cigarette smoking, would increase the risk of cancer.

Instead, the study, which compared the lifestyles of 611 Los Angeles County lung cancer patients and 601 patients with head and neck cancers with those of 1,040 people without cancer, found no elevated cancer risk for even the heaviest pot smokers. It did find a 20-fold increased risk of lung cancer in people who smoked two or more packs of cigarettes a day.

Why is it again that we have made marijuana an illegal drug, while nicotine is legal?

But seriously, one has to wonder what about marijuana (or the THC most likely) is protecting the pot smoker from known carcinogens in the act of smoking itself. This could turn out to be extremely useful research if confirmed.

This is a sensitive topic, legally. Let's keep it focused-Garb.

**Garbarsardar** · May 24, 2006, 11:50 PM

Cancer was not the primary or the most important reason for cannabis being in the list of illegal substances. The reason was the psychotropic-hallucinogenic effects. Nevertheless I agree that drug policy would benefit from a total restructuring, regarding all substances and not only cannabis.

And to be fair:

Originally Posted by The rest of the article from the previous post

The results should not be taken as a blank check to smoke pot, which has been associated with problems including cognitive impairment and chronic bronchitis, said Dr. John Hansen-Flaschen, chief of pulmonary and critical care at the University of Pennsylvania Health System in Philadelphia. He was not involved in the study.

Previous studies showed marijuana tar contained about 50 percent more of the chemicals linked to lung cancer, compared with tobacco tar, Tashkin said. In addition, smoking a marijuana joint deposits four times more tar in the lungs than smoking an equivalent amount of tobacco.

"Marijuana is packed more loosely than tobacco, so there's less filtration through the rod of the cigarette, so more particles will be inhaled," Tashkin said in a statement. "And marijuana smokers typically smoke differently than tobacco smokers -- they hold their breath about four times longer, allowing more time for extra fine particles to deposit in the lung."

He theorized that tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, a chemical in marijuana smoke that produces its psychotropic effect, may encourage aging, damaged cells to die off before they become cancerous.

Hansen-Flaschen also cautioned a cancer-marijuana link could emerge as baby boomers age and there may be smaller population groups, based on genetics or other factors, still at risk for marijuana-related cancers.

**~~removeduser_487563287433~~** · May 25, 2006, 05:24 AM

When you smoke a spliff it is still mostly tobacco. There is an obvious flaw with this assessment.

**Erik** · May 25, 2006, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Ferrets54

When you smoke a spliff it is still mostly tobacco. There is an obvious flaw with this assessment.

Yes, that's what I thought.

But I've also heared that Americans smoke pot without tabacco.
(I think that's because it's all dried out by the time it reaches the end users, unlike here in the Netherlands where you can get much better quality "fresh" pot from coffeeshops)
Can somebody confirm this?
@Americans: how do you smoke your pot? - No one is to reply to this. Discussion of illegal activities is strictly prohibited - imb39

**Red Harvest** · May 25, 2006, 10:29 AM

It would be interesting to see the data since it would have been categorized: smoker, non-smoker, pot and tobacco smoker, pot only/primarily smoker.

Incorrect and inaccurate characterizaton of this poster by moderater removed.

**bigfootedfred** · May 25, 2006, 01:00 PM

Previous studies showed marijuana tar contained about 50 percent more of the chemicals linked to lung cancer, compared with tobacco tar, Tashkin said. In addition, smoking a marijuana joint deposits four times more tar in the lungs than smoking an equivalent amount of tobacco.

Resin, also known as hash, Solid ect.
Yes. theres Tar. theres also diesel, petrol, and plastic.

Bud however, no.
The only chemicals linked to lung cancer you will find in a Joint made frm nice bud, will be the tabacco its mixed with.

-self censored-

**God** · May 25, 2006, 10:48 AM

Fine, it (apparantly) can't give you cancer, but does that mean it's safe?

One study has indicated that a user's risk of heart attack more than quadruples in the first hour after smoking marijuana7. The researchers suggest that such an effect might occur from marijuana's effects on blood pressure and heart rate and reduced oxygen-carrying capacity of blood.

Some of marijuana's adverse health effects may occur because THC impairs the immune system's ability to fight disease. In laboratory experiments that exposed animal and human cells to THC or other marijuana ingredients, the normal disease-preventing reactions of many of the key types of immune cells were inhibited14. In other studies, mice exposed to THC or related substances were more likely than unexposed mice to develop bacterial infections and tumors

Research clearly demonstrates that marijuana has the potential to cause problems in daily life or make a person's existing problems worse. Depression17, anxiety17, and personality disturbances18 have been associated with chronic marijuana use. Because marijuana compromises the ability to learn and remember information, the more a person uses marijuana the more he or she is likely to fall behind in accumulating intellectual, job, or social skills. Moreover, research has shown that marijuana’s adverse impact on memory and learning can last for days or weeks after the acute effects of the drug wear off

and the answer is... no.

Oh, and

A study comparing 173 cancer patients and 176 healthy individuals produced evidence that marijuana smoking doubled or tripled the risk of these cancers

who's to say this study is wrong and that one right?

EDIT: Ignore the numbers in random places, they were in small print from the site I got this info from.

**Tostig** · May 25, 2006, 11:00 AM

Remember:

Incitement of illegal activity. Examples of things that are illegal in most jurisdictions: ROMs, warez, cracks of game software (including no-CD cracks), CD keys/CD key generators, online copies of copyrighted music, movies, videos, or any other type of media, methods of cheating in online games, marijuana or other controlled substances. Asking for any of those is against the rules, as is encouraging their use or distribution in any way. If you're saying it as a joke ("Strangling random people in the street is fun!"), make sure that's clear. If something is legal in your locality but not in most of the U.S. (where Ogre's Net is based, remember, even if we have an international audience), specify that you are not encouraging the commission of the act in places where it's illegal. Discussion of whether something should be legal is fine.

It's an Intermediate Offense to incite people to smoke it, however I'd like to think that a mature discussion is possible without breaking the ToS.

Tostig, no - discussion about how to smoke etc is against the ToS. Period. - imb39
Back on topic, ought hallucigenic drugs be prohibited, controlled or legal? Just look at Britain's laws on magic mushrooms. Where having them prepared is a Class A drugs offense, but having them fresh, their spores or "accidentally" picking them in the wild isn't.

**Red Harvest** · May 25, 2006, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by Tostig

Back on topic, ought hallucigenic drugs be prohibited, controlled or legal? Just look at Britain's laws on magic mushrooms. Where having them prepared is a Class A drugs offense, but having them fresh, their spores or "accidentally" picking them in the wild isn't.

I've seen college football players (Amercian football) on shrooms, scary SOB's. Took a dozen of us to take one down when he went psychotic. Can't say that I know much about shrooms, but that incident suggested to me that they really are more than a little dangerous--the shrooms not the football players...well, both actually, the combination was not good.

**Red Harvest** · May 25, 2006, 12:01 PM

God,

Almost all of what you quoted are actually short term effects and are rather mild. Contrasting with alcohol or nicotine or many other legal drugs would make THC look rather mild.

Additionally, the cancer study you quoted is 1/4th the sample size. It is unlikely with the small sample size that they had the resolution to screen out factors in this newer larger study.

Finally, what I saw of the cognitive effects were largely related to smokers becoming overly mellow. The biggest complaint I have against pot is that it takes away motivation. However, as a result I suggest that it should be required treatment for violent offenders AFTER release from custody.

Pot is illegal for political reasons.

**imb39** · May 25, 2006, 12:52 PM

I have deleted several posts in this thread. Discussing the method of drug use is strictly prohibited. any discussion of illegal activites is off limits. Thank you - imb39

**Denny Crane!** · May 25, 2006, 02:25 PM

I have noticed that the psychological effects of smoking cannabis has been brought up, as it frequently is by the media and I think it is worth examining.

The most common terms used when discussing the possible ramifications of smoking cannabis are psychosis, psychotic and skizophrenia. They are big scary words, but I felt compelled to investigate there eytomology as they are frequently used interchangably. What I discovered was this, the psychotic and psychosis effects can be a simple misinterpretation of reality while suffering hallucinogenic effects. If you percieve someone to be looking at you funny and they are not this is a psychotic effect. A psychosis is the accumalation of symptoms that causes you to lose touch with reality. Skizophrenia is the most serious form of psychosis one which is involved in with abnormalities of perception, emotion, thought, motivation, motor function, which devastates people's lives and has a terrible prognosis. There is a rather large seperation in the severity of symptoms that can occur.

The connotations given in the media about the effects of cannabis tend not to differentiate between transient psychosis (that passes when the drug is metabolised) and the psychosis with permanent effects. Now when people discuss the ramifications are they differentiating? Are the serious effects, the ones which concern us, likely? Lets consider the evidence for long term psychosis and short term psychosis:

Originally Posted by http://www.health.vic.gov.au/drugservices/pubs/cannabis.htm

A very large study of 50,465 Swedish army conscripts determined their cannabis use at age 18 and followed those individuals for the next 15 years. Recruits who had tried cannabis by age 18 had 2.4 times the risk of being diagnosed with schizophrenia in the following 15 years than those who had never used cannabis. The risk increased if the conscript used greater quantities of cannabis
However, of the conscripts who developed schizophrenia:

Most had never used cannabis
and

Only 7.7 per cent were heavy cannabis users

Therefore, cannabis use is only one possible factor contributing to an increased risk of developing schizophrenia or other psychosis. This is especially true when one considers that most people who develop a psychosis have never used cannabis

In addition, cannabis use at age 18 might be a consequence of emerging psychosis (that is, psychosis precedes cannabis use, not vice versa)

The few words I picked up on with this report were the intimations that linked cannabis to psychosis offered no evidence or used the words "believed to be" or "anecdotal evidence".

Also

For example, some evidence suggests that substances such as alcohol and amphetamines have a greater effect than cannabis in the development of a psychosis

It is worth noting that drug users who develop a problem in particular cannabis users are poly-drug users not just cannabis users. A little bit of anecdotal evidence of my own there. However it does point out that using cannabis in conjunction with other drugs can cause a destabilising influence on the brain chemistry although a distinct lack of evidence is offered.

There is a severe form of cannabis psychosis which can last up to several days but does respond well to treatment.

Originally Posted by http://www.spring.org.uk/2006/01/does-cannabis-cause-psychosis.htm

First, there has been no increase in schizophrenia in this country despite a massive increase in cannabis smoking. Second, there is no evidence that cannabis-growing populations such as Jamaica have a higher incidence of psychosis. Third, you can show an association [between the drug and the illness] but you can't show a cause

The rebuttal pointed to this link which I have already found to be contradictory in nature (see first quote bold sentence)

Originally Posted by http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/cannabis.marijuana.schizophrenia.html

Use of street drugs (especially marijuana/hash/cannabis) have been linked with significantly increased probability of developing schizophrenia. This link has been documented in over 30 different scientific studies (studies done mostly in the UK, Australia and Sweden) over the past 20 years. In one example, a study interviewed 50,000 members of the Swedish Army about their drug consumption and followed up with them later in life. Those who were heavy consumers of cannabis at age 18 were over 600% more likely to be diagnosed with schizophrenia over the next 15 years than those did not take it. (see diagram below). Experts estimate that between 8% and 13% of all schizophrenia cases are linked to marijuna / cannabis use during teen years.

So who do we believe? How do we tell if our cannabis smoking is sending our nation spiralling into the loony bin? The only solution I can think of is to examine schizophrenic trends from the 1960's through to the present day to see if the cannabis fogged '60's through to the present day has blighted our generations. Is this the true reason our society is going to pieces ( <------

I must of read the mail today)

http://www.mentalhealth.com/mag1/scz/sb-time.html

There could be a number of different factors in the reason for the drop. Several experts have pointed to a rise in different diagnosis or the use of different criteria to classify them. Despite several conflicting ideas on the cause of the rise of schizophrenia in the industrial age it is safe to conclude that in the post industrial age it is falling (regardless of wether they disagree on by how much) we are certainly not seeing any rise despite a growing trend of cannabis use since the '60's.

I would also consider investigating wether cannabis rich cultures have higher incidence of psychosis in comparison to other cultures with a different drug culture.

So in conclusion yes it can cause temporary psychosis (as can alcohol) but its ability to inflict a severe permenant psychosis is minimal and its association with it is unjust.

Peter

**Denny Crane!** · May 25, 2006, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Bigfootedfred

Thanks peter.

I firmly believe the only thing that keeps me sane,
is being able to sit down at the end of the week, and relax with a nice j***t and a beer.

Funny you should say that there is a correlation between people who suffer from some form of mental disorder and cannabis use (not that I am implying you are insane

), not a correlation that cannabis use causes the mental disorder but that people who suffer from disorders are drawn to cannabis use.

There are varied opinions on reasons for this and varied opinions on its pros and cons. What is not anecdotal or debatable is that cannabis has a calming effect. It can reduce the symptoms and calm the person down. Given that cannabis can induce temporary psychosis it can trigger a relapse so it gives with one hand and takes with the other.

As an anxiety sufferer I can testify to the fact that yes it calms you down and reduces symptoms but of course I am not advocating its use (ToS) winners don't do drugs.

Peter

**God** · May 25, 2006, 03:49 PM

That's rediculas. I have never robbed anyone or seen anyone rob someone because they wanted to get stoned

I know someone who robbed their own father to get some drug (not sure what though)

**Denny Crane!** · May 25, 2006, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by God

I know someone who robbed their own father to get some drug (not sure what though)

I'm not really sure that is constructive God.

Peter

**God** · May 25, 2006, 04:14 PM

I'm just saying that it is not rediculous for people to steal to get drugs as it does happen. I was answering a point. Therefor it was constructive.

**Denny Crane!** · May 25, 2006, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by God

I'm just saying that it is not rediculous for people to steal to get drugs as it does happen. I was answering a point. Therefor it was constructive.

The quote in question was about people robbing to get cannabis.

Your vague allusion to a drug which could be anything from heroin, crystal meth, crack to cigarettes or alcohol.

In essence the inference I can now draw from your comment was that if it is not ridiculous that someone could steal to get one drug then it is reasonable to assume that people could steal for another. Dubious logic at best when taking into consideration some are physically addictive and some are not like cannabis.

Peter

**DougyM** · May 25, 2006, 11:54 AM

Maybe the reason Tobaco isnt ilegal is that it doesnt make people rob others for money when they get kicked out the house and or have sold all their own possesions.

Ive also never seen anybody die from smoking a fag and going nutz...

Smoking a joint though... ive seen a mate get flattened by a car.... and im talking full on gore.

Then theres the fact that if you look at any study, smoking drugs tends to be bad news in the long run.... organ failure, brain damage, severe addiction, etc...

Oh and dont start the crap about "but your cool if you smoke weed!!! i r sophistimicated!!"

**turtle** · May 25, 2006, 12:08 PM