Learning to do 3d Modeling for games - How steep a learning curve

[Ahiga]

I've been eyeing the really awestriking works that have been put on display for Total war and been wanting to try and take up my own hand at 3d modeling and graphics with 3ds max, but what's stopped me (as it does for trying to take up the pencil and draw) is just how difficult the learning curve really is.

It's a very open ended question and I often hear that it's mind numbingly difficult, but if that were the case then I'd imagine there'd be far less modders than there is already.

How long can it take for someone to learn how to 3d model?
Is there a dramatic difference in modeling for RTW and modeling for a different game (Let's say NWN or Half life 2)?
What if I base my modeling on a pre-existing model of the game, does it become easier?

In general, does it take a real commitment to learn or is it something which you seem naturally inclined to, like artwork with the pen or pencil?

[Halie Satanus]

It's hard, the learning curve is steep and extremly unforgiving, you'll think you know what your doing and then max gives you a kick in the nuts, everytime you press export your heart skips a beat your mouth goes dry and the palms of your hands itch, that said it's well worth it when you make a model skin it export it in game and it work's, you'll slay the fatted calf, dance the happy dance, and rush your screen shot to the twc like a bat out of hell. get it and learn it, i'll see you in the mod workshop soon enough.

1.depends how much time you put in and how good you are at understnding tutorials. about two months.
2.Not sure, RTW are low poly models, if that makes a difference.
3.It depends what your working, on but i don't think it makes much difference.
4.i can't really draw for toffee, but i'm pretty good with graphics and i know photoshop fairly well, max isn't really artistic, not for RTW anyway, it's more mechanical,(do you know that skinning isn't done in max?) and yes it does take commitment, you can't really get quick results, i mean you need to know alot to get a model in game, but there is a process and if you stick to the process then it's not that hard to do simple models. Generally if i get stuck i go to the org, there's more modelers active there.and theres alot of info in the existing how to make models threads.

Good luck.

[Ahiga]

Thanks Halie. I know that texturing is done in photoshop, and that is something which worries me for the future, but I figure it's easier to find texturers than modelers, so it would be better for me to focus in that.

I'll be getting it and trying it out once I reformat.

[Halie Satanus]

You don't have to use photoshop, but i think it's the easiest/best (you can use gimp which is free), and yeh theres alot more skinners than modelers so if you get your head around max you'll be far more popular. check out Professor420 video tutorials here, there all in the thread somewhere,

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...t=33645&page=1
and these threads are good to.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49570
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=51457

[Zuwxiv]

I recently found Google SketchUp. It is incredibly easy to use, and although it may not be up to what you expect, it is still a awesome piece of software (and there is a free version, of course!)

[HorseArcher]

Let's just say that colleges offer the 3D modelling courses and that tells something. I have a friend who does some amazing work with 3dsmax and he said, it took him just a a few months to actually make something from scratch and looks somewhat good.

Imagine this. What you see here (on tWC or modders) is not really modelling, unless the modeller builds up the model from ground up. This is more like editing what you have given, with little things added/taken away, but the base-model is already present.
Of course you still need to know how to use 3dsmax and know many things, just to begin.

So anyway, 3dsmax is so big and so full of options, that people usually focus on one area or another to become efficent.

For example:

There are people who can make extremely good looking fires, with animation. They look extremely good and very lifelike, but on the other hand, they can only make mediocre human faces.

Some other people can make really good looking models that looks great to render out and looks great as a picture, but they really suck making nice animations.

I'm not saying that they aren't any people who doesn't know how to do everything with 3dsmax, but they have invested years and years of learning and working with 3dsmax.
So, in your case, you better get an idea of what specific area you want to do, and better yet, get a 3dsmax book for it also.


and let me know when you can do something
like this or this (no these aren't real pictures)

and then you can say that you are "experienced" with 3dsmax.

good luck!

[Ahiga]

Experienced? Those look better than what passes for top of the line CGI today. Its very refreshing to hear that I can work with a base model and build from it, and not simply work from the ground up. Most of what I want to do is pretty much what has been done by RTW modelers - take a basic model (A human, or perhaps an armor piece on the torso) and edit it. I'm not really looking to create 3d scenery like the excellent screenshots provided, more develop model's like Caius's Crusader units or a new gun for a Half life 2 mod. That I can work from a basic template likely means it will be easier and more accessable (Not at all a pushover, of course) to get into.

Right now I know what I want to do, which is chiefly design objects, those being armor and arnaments for MTWII and Neverwinter Nights two. In particular, I saw what Caius was producing for the saracen's in his mod, and wanted to develop similiarly Muslim armors and arnaments for NWN2, which will be chiefly fantasy and western european. I would either ask for his permission to try and somehow transfer his model's from RTW to NWN2, or develop my own with the game's basic armor as a template. I assume that every game is a bit different in desiging armor (especially in the leap from strategy game to over the top roleplay, though caius's seem to be of a FPS quality to begin with) but that fundementals remain. I

But you mention animation, and I recall issues with modeling armor in M&B because of a similiar reason - Do most games have it that you need to develop an animation for the armor itself? It might be an obvious answer but the way I added in different model's produced by the community in RTW, and then set it up with a specific animation in the txt files makes me think animation is separate from modeling..but I might and likely am wrong on this. I need to know how to animate as well as model, if I wish to produce armor for a player to wear in a RPG?

As soon as I reformat my PC and get 3dsmax, you'll be hearing from me again.