2 British Soldiers abuse Afgan kids aged about 10 and film it...

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Troops ... in Afghanistan
PM's shock at 'child abuse'

By JOHN KAY and VIRGINIA WHEELER, Defence Editor
Published: Today
TWO British soldiers have been arrested over claims they abused Afghan children aged about ten.

The accused pair — a sergeant and a private in the Mercian Battle Group — allegedly encouraged a boy and a girl to touch them through their clothes.
They are said to have filmed the children doing it before showing the footage to other soldiers on laptops.
David Cameron was said to be "deeply shocked" last night over the claims.
The Prime Minister was informed of the allegations by defence chiefs.
They told him military police had arrested a sergeant and a private.
The fully-uniformed pair, both from the Mercian Battle Group currently deployed in Afghanistan, allegedly filmed the separate incidents before showing them to comrades on laptops.
They were held following complaints from other servicemen.
Allegations

Several laptops have been seized and their contents scoured by a team of military cops assigned to the inquiry.
It is the first time allegations of abusing children have been levelled against British troops in either Afghanistan or Iraq.
A source close to the probe said last night: "Nothing has been proved. What we have to establish is whether we are looking at sexual predatory behaviour or totally ill-judged larking about.
"Whatever the case, it is utterly inappropriate and terribly damaging to the British Army's reputation in Afghanistan." A senior defence source added: "We are determined to get to the bottom of this ASAP. Any criminal behaviour will be dealt with robustly and must not be allowed to undermine the excellent work our armed forces are doing in Afghanistan."
The allegations come days after the US military was rocked by video said to show Marines urinating on Taliban corpses.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16607304


UK troops arrested over Afghanistan child abuse claims

The Ministry of Defence said it takes abuse allegations "extremely seriously"
Military police are investigating allegations of child abuse by two British soldiers in Afghanistan.
Two servicemen from the Mercian Battle Group have been arrested over claims that they abused two Afghan children aged about 10.
The Sun newspaper said the separate incidents were filmed and shown to colleagues on laptop computers.
The Ministry of Defence said it took such claims "seriously" and the Royal Military Police were investigating.
"We are aware that an allegation has been made concerning alleged inappropriate behaviour by two servicemen in Afghanistan," said a spokeswoman.
"The Royal Military Police (Special Investigations Branch) has launched an investigation into this. We take any such allegation extremely seriously."

[Seether]

And...?

What do you want to discuss? That child abuse is bad? Or is this simply another "ISAF is bad! Look!" thread?

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

And...?

What do you want to discuss? That child abuse is bad? Or is this simply another "ISAF is bad! Look!" thread?

You can discuss the actions of these soldiers and condem them.These kinds of things are happening all too often.I am sure Afgan people are taking these incidents very seriously.More seriously than you.
Ahh why the defensive paranoia Seether..Can you not show pity for these kids??Instead your 1st action is to attack the validity of this thread.

The allegations come days after the US military was rocked by video said to show Marines urinating on Taliban corpses

.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

You can discuss the actions of these soldiers and condem them.These kinds of things are happening all too often.I am sure Afgan people are taking these incidents very seriously.More seriously than you.
Ahh why the defensive paranoia Seether..Can you not show pity for these kids??Instead your 1st action is to attack the validity of this thread.

.

So two separate incidents, one where US Marines pissed on dead bodies (the dead can't care) of the enemy is comparable to two British troops abusing children?

No wonder things seem so messed up around here.

Naturally I condemn what they've done but unlike you I'm happy with the fact they've been arrested and the British government is handling it. However some people don't like listening to the same old "THE WEST IS BAD AND EVIL!" song and dance.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

So two separate incidents, one where US Marines pissed on dead bodies (the dead can't care)

No but there familys and country men care.

of the enemy is comparable to two British troops abusing children?

I would say abusing 10yr old kids is worse would you agree?

Naturally I condemn what they've done but unlike you I'm happy with the fact they've been arrested and the British government is handling it. However some people don't like listening to the same old "THE WEST IS BAD AND EVIL!" song and dance.

I Never said anything like the west is bad or that i am not happy the perverts are being put on trial.And does starting a thread about pedobears in the British army give you a problem??

[Sir Winston Churchill]

No but there familys and country men care.

Countrymen? The ones that "don't agree with their ideals and philosophies"? They care that the same people who run into crowded markets filled with innocents and blow themselves up are getting pissed on after death? Besides, as another user posted Afghans commit child abuse themselves as it is. Where's the outrage there?
The family cares? How do we even know if the family even knows it was their member who got pissed on? They probably won't get the body back anyway.

I would say abusing 10yr old kids is worse would you agree?

Then why do you say this along with a quote about the Marine pissing incident?

These kinds of things are happening all too often

I Never said anything like the west is bad or that i am not happy the perverts are being put on trial.And does starting a thread about pedobears in the British army give you a problem??

It makes you come off that way, especially when you don't even comment in your OP about anything. Just put up a random article and leave it there. Most threads get closed for less. Seems like all you're trying to do is make another "THE WEST IS EVIL" case.

Also, the term is "pedophiles", not "pedobears".

[Seether]

You can discuss the actions of these soldiers and condem them.

I did, I said child abuse is bad. But in all honesty, they are just allegations at this point, so not much to discuss yet.

These kinds of things are happening all too often.

You mean child abuse? Yes, child abuse is apparently rampant in Afghanistan, but is committed primarily by Afghans, not ISAF. Remember that 15 year old Afghan bride that was tortured by her in-laws because she wouldn't be come a prostitute? Or what about the Taliban blowing up children or using them to mule drugs and bombs?

I am sure Afgan people are taking these incidents very seriously.More seriously than you.

What do you want me to do besides condemn it? I spent my time in Afghanistan already and don't plan on going back.

Ahh why the defensive paranoia Seether..Instead your 1st action is to attack the validity of this thread.

Because I know how much you love the Brits and ISAF involvement in Afghanistan.

Can you not show pity for these kids??

The allegations, if true, are sick and it sucks for those kids. But until we actually get some evidence confirmed, they are just allegations.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

And...?

What do you want to discuss? That child abuse is bad? Or is this simply another "ISAF is bad! Look!" thread?

I he is arguing the latter, than the ISAF should pull out to prevent horrors like this from occuring.

[(s)AINT]

And...?

What do you want to discuss? That child abuse is bad? Or is this simply another "ISAF is bad! Look!" thread?

No, it's not bad!

[Darkhorse]

It's Tom Cruise, its the fact that the accused are British he wants to shout about, as shocking and horrible the crime is.

[Adhamh Ashashi]

Disgusting. But what is there to discuss? Unless some fool comes in here trying defend it. Not all British soldiers are bad, but they have no business in Afghanistan in my opinion.

[Imperial]

But what is there to discuss? .

What is there to discuss?

There's about a 20 page thread about Marines pissing on a dead Taliban body.

[Jedi1]

Would it not be prudent to withhold judgment until the MPs at least find some evidence, which according to the article they have not done yet and this is currently all allegations. Innocence is presumed until proven guilty.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

I wish to expose the perverts.It does not matter what country they are from Darkhorse..The pedo bears actions are utterly inappropriate and terribly damaging to the British Army's reputation in Afghanistan.Where is the chain of command over there.Where are the leaders who stop there men doing these pissing and abusing kids and killing civilians.
Do the armed forces in Afganistan actually realize they are meant to be helping the Afgan people not running around like cowboys in the wild west.......

Would it not be prudent to withhold judgment until the MPs at least find some evidence, which according to the article they have not done yet and this is currently all allegations. Innocence is presumed until proven guilty.

They have the laptops.David Cameron would not be commenting on this if there was no substance.

[Darkhorse]

I wish to expose the perverts.It does not matter what country they are from Darkhorse.

You've spent weeks trolling British users, what sort of reaction do you expect. You've haven't really exposed anything by the way, I'd say that was the media.

The pedo bears actions are utterly inappropriate and terribly damaging to the British Army's reputation in Afghanistan.Where is the chain of command over there.Where are the leaders who stop there men doing these pissing and abusing kids and killing civilians.

Yes, it certainly is inappropriate, perhaps not as damaging as first thought, I would certianly hope that it is explained that these men, if proved guilty, are a couple of bad eggs and not generally what soldiers are like (nationality wouldn't bother the Afghani's, just the fact they are ISAF). The command and leaders are running the war and logistics behind many tens of thousands of men. It is impossible to do that and keep track of every soldiers actions as an individual.

Do the armed forces in Afganistan actually realize they are meant to be helping the Afgan people not running around like cowboys in the wild west.......

This is an exceptionally rare case, you cannot deny the good ISAF has done.

[AqD]

This is an exceptionally rare case, you cannot deny the good ISAF has done.

So what're the good things they have done?

[Nevins]

So what're the good things they have done?

Removing a ruling regime that was ensuring that the country stayed as poor and backwards as possible by severely repressing half of their population for their gender? Is this a serious question?

[Copperknickers II]

Who's mindset?

The mindset of the American military. Clearly whatever methods it is using to mitigate the dehumanising effects of war are not working, since there seems to be a new scandal almost every week of late, and that's just what we hear about so imagine what we don't hear about. You don't see French or Italian troops massacring, torturing and defiling the bodies of civilians, and the USA has a general culture of glorifying the military, thereby itself dehumanising the Iraqis and Afghans.

Even if you are a brainwashed pedophile you should KNOW its wrong and you are perfectly capable of making that moral choice of not molesting someone.

True. Did I say otherwise? I am just saying paedophilia is often the result of pressures on a susceptible mind, whereas sadism and brutality are more ingrained. Twin studies show that sexuality is a lot more flexible than plain psychosis.

Then again i'm not thinking along the lines that urination on what is effectively now an inanimate object with no will or mind is WORSE than touching children.

Have you ever seen a dead body of someone who has been violently killed? Let me assure you, it takes a seriously high degree of mental illness to view it as simply another inanimate object, it is enough to make even soldiers physically sick. Let alone defiling it and filming it as a joke. Now are you really telling me that given the SPECIFIC NATURE of this child abuse, it is really any worse? The children were not touched up, they were doing the touching, through clothes. That is a pretty sickening scenario itself, but not anywhere near as traumatic or violent.

Good lord I was holding on to the sliver of hope that you were joking but apparently I was wrong. I think that previous posters have handled this already, but suffice it to say that the mental damage inflicted on these young boys by these two soon to be former british troopers is far more than that suffered by a corpse being urinated on. I would rather be urinated on rather than sexually abused any day, never thought I would have to say that but oh well.

You'd rather be shot in the head, urinated on, and then have a video of that shared around, than be made to do something you didn't really understand that you had in all likelihood seen much worse than in your daily life? OK...

Really? Pissing on a corpse is worse than molesting a child? You represent TWC with comments like that?

I don't represent anything, what makes you think that?

Americans piss on the dead and you call for their heads, while the British molest young children and you ask for a slap on the wrist and add them to a list of other offenders.

Do you know what the sex offender's register is?

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Well i hope that any good work remains so after the troops pull out.But i fear that in 10 yrs time we will be back to square one again.The Taliban will be back.Good men have died trying to sort out that country but i think its a lost cause.Watching troops saying on tv that they dont think the Afgan troops are ready yet is worrying.
Also on the other thread i did say english are not evil etc and had to explain that i am pro scottish independance and not anti english as most of my family come from London.These guys could even have been scots as its british soldiers.Yes those men i stood up for on my independant scottish thread.

[johnhughthom]

They were held following complaints from other servicemen.

You ask where is the chain of command? Seems to have done it's job here.