VH/VH campaign (IMPOSSIBRUU!!)

[Benox]

So i was playing my first VH/VH campaign with gondor ( I usally played on M/M or H/H) and I must say is quite frustrating seen wave after wave after of enemys. In the beginning i was able to afford and mantain good armies but with the guerrilla warfare and the slow replacement of unit pools, my armies were slowly deteriorating, so i started losing settlements.
I could manage mordor well but Harad just keeps owning me and when I finally was able to merge a full stack militia army to face them, it got brutally murdered at a bridge (where i did win the battle but lost 1 of 3 generals and 70% of my army, my economy was about -9000 and another full stack harad army was just after that one) so I became mad because I lost many units because they started routing like pussies even without fight (which causes even more deaths and more units routing) and I rage quit my campaign after losign all west gondor setlements before turn 45

Had you ever rage quit any campaign before? or Did you fight till the end?

[marceror]

Gondor seems to really have it rough in this version of the game. They have Harad's full focus, and the better part of Mordor's focus. I haven't played on them on VH/VH, but I did play a H/VH campaign as Gondor and managed to do quite well. The key for me was to simply win battles while greatly outnumbered. I was always fielding armies that were smaller than those of my enemies, and my options were to either win, or begin losing my territories, and by extension, the campaign. Once you get into a hole as Gondor, which means your enemies are becoming even stronger, you're pretty much doomed. And you can't allow yourself to go into the red, as again, that's another hole you won't likely be able to dig yourself out of.

Against Mordor, it's a good idea to get Minas Morgul early if you can, as this reduces the number of directions Mordor can attack from and "semi" secures the Ithilien regions. This also denies Mordor a strong fortress. I also managed to get a boat down to Umbar and took that from Harad. They were making a TON of money from this settlement, and this is where all of their uber units were coming from early on. Take this, and you handicap Harad significantly... even if it doesn't bring much cash or troops for you for a very long time. The main threat from Harad, really, is their cavalry. DO NOT let them charge your infantry, or you will take heavy losses. I always have my cavalry ready to intercept theirs, and follow that up with my infantry running in to overwhelm. This works best with Gondor mounted generals, since they replenish their numbers automatically.

I imagine on VH/VH, it gets even crazier to manage things. If it's too much, you are well advised to scale back the difficulty. VH/VH is there for people who are bored with M/M or H/H, or masochists. Since you don't appear to be either of those, I think you just need to play on the settings that are fun. Perhaps VH/VH would be manageable as, say, the High Elves, but as I mentioned, Gondor's campaign is particularly brutal due to their big war on two fronts.

[Valandur]

Yah, OP, I've been there before!
Gondor are probably the hardest in the game to play, maybe tied with Isengard. I like their position, but hate their economy and because of their economy I never got far into the campaign before calling .

Which is why I went into the descr_strat and boosted the economy of every faction in the game!

[Swad]

You need to take a boat with some raiding forces at the beginning of the game and rape the coast of Harad. Those ports give them a great deal of cash to work with. In general, take the settlements, destroy all the buildings for cash, and let it revolt to lower the population some more. If you do this enough, those coastal cities are pretty much going to be a burden more than a boon.

If on the other hand, you want to hold a city, it might split Harad's attention.

[marceror]

If on the other hand, you want to hold a city, it might split Harad's attention.

This is what happened when I took Umbar and held Umbar. I also took Barad Harn and Kas Shafra, so it wasn't too difficult to ferry reinforcement troops down when needed. Oh, and you can build a killer navy from Umbar pretty much right away, so I managed to take naval superiority away from Harad.

The only bummer for me was after the Dark Lord called an invasion on Umbar. I admit, it got to be a bit much around the time I had defeated the 12 or so full stack invasion army, and more just seemed to be lining up to take their place. The only positive is that most of the invasion armies have to travel through Gondor territories, so I was able to intercept most of them before they got anywhere close to Harad. But again, I was fighting 4 to 5 huge epic battles per turn, and not feeling like my constant victories were hurting my enemy in any way. That's where I decided to try a new campaign with reduced stack spam. It just became too much of a grind.

I probably should have just executed the populace, destroyed all the buildings, and gotten out of there. Well, building a libarary or other cultural building is actually a good idea. Even after the settlement goes rebel, your culture will continue to build there... so it will be that much harder for your enemy to make use of the settlement if/when they retake it, and should you decide to take it later it may make the transition much easier.

[Qba]

This is what happened when I took Umbar and held Umbar. I also took Barad Harn and Kas Shafra, so it wasn't too difficult to ferry reinforcement troops down when needed. Oh, and you can build a killer navy from Umbar pretty much right away, so I managed to take naval superiority away from Harad.

This.

The only bummer for me was after the Dark Lord called an invasion on Umbar. (...) I probably should have just executed the populace, destroyed all the buildings, and gotten out of there. Well, building a libarary or other cultural building is actually a good idea. Even after the settlement goes rebel, your culture will continue to build there... so it will be that much harder for your enemy to make use of the settlement if/when they retake it, and should you decide to take it later it may make the transition much easier.

The same thing happened to me, so I sold the city to Rhun for quite a bit of money Later, Umbar turned rebel, so that I was able to reconquer it.

[Lord Benson]

You need to take a boat with some raiding forces at the beginning of the game and rape the coast of Harad. Those ports give them a great deal of cash to work with. In general, take the settlements, destroy all the buildings for cash, and let it revolt to lower the population some more. If you do this enough, those coastal cities are pretty much going to be a burden more than a boon.

If on the other hand, you want to hold a city, it might split Harad's attention.

No way dude! Gondor is the faction of honour. They dont plunder around. Face the enemy! I was able to take back the two southern citys back as gondor and holding Mordor behind the mountains (VH/VH). But that was only short time success. Weary forces had nothing to put against the new and stronger stacks of Harad. And my economy being in minus was not able to recruit new troops and stop the red wave from the south.
I thought about taking all the starting units from the south and the middle in one big stack and take the small rebbel-settlement above the river. the troops in the west should be able to take the rebbel-settlement in the far west. then bringing this troops to support the fight in the south...
I wanted to try that but I decided to start a new campaign with Rohan wich is very successfull till now (78).
Biggest problem in the south are the weak troops of gondor. so u have to build up population asap. then u should be able to build spear-troops!

Good luck, but stay honourable

[Hallow]

No way dude! Gondor is the faction of honour. They dont plunder around.

I could point you to Thorongils (Aragorns) raid on Umbar during the reign of Ecthelion II.

[Swad]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

No way dude! Gondor is the faction of honour. They dont plunder around. Face the enemy! I was able to take back the two southern citys back as gondor and holding Mordor behind the mountains (VH/VH). But that was only short time success. Weary forces had nothing to put against the new and stronger stacks of Harad. And my economy being in minus was not able to recruit new troops and stop the red wave from the south.
I thought about taking all the starting units from the south and the middle in one big stack and take the small rebbel-settlement above the river. the troops in the west should be able to take the rebbel-settlement in the far west. then bringing this troops to support the fight in the south...
I wanted to try that but I decided to start a new campaign with Rohan wich is very successfull till now (78).
Biggest problem in the south are the weak troops of gondor. so u have to build up population asap. then u should be able to build spear-troops!

Good luck, but stay honourable

I don't see what is so bad about it. Harad doesn't seem to be oppressing its people into subservience to force them to go to war or to supply those at war already. The majority of their people seem to be in full compliance of their kingdom's aim of imperial territoriality, and as such as just as liable to harms as those who wield arms and prosecute these aims in person.

And lets not forget, Gondor is primarily fighting a war of self defence. It is a just war on Gondor's part. When times are desperate, as in the case of the OP, Gondor taking up violence for good reasons, should be allowed to preserve itself against the aggressors through desperate means.

[McDrewbs]

In the 2 campaigns I have running (Gondor/Mordor) Harad have had difficulty capturing the rebel settlements near Gondor. Maybe they go for the Rebel settlement on the other side of their territory first? In my Mordor campaign, I turtled a little bit, holding W.Osgiliath and Cair Andros as cut off's. During this time Gondor barely attacked me and after using the eye, found that they had pushed into Harad territory and taken the rebel settlements.

[Dutch-Balrog]

Gondor has always been 1 of the hardest TATW campaigns, if you cant handle it then you should try out an other faction.

[Dwarven Berserker]

Does anyone ever really use high-tier ships btw? I don't find them really usefull actually as the enemy fleet is often not much more then a shamefur dispray

[Qba]

Does anyone ever really use high-tier ships btw? I don't find them really usefull actually as the enemy fleet is often not much more then a shamefur dispray

Unfortunately, while playing High Elves I am constantly rewarded with "the best units currently available" - useless Palarrans (why not Eldar Guardians...?).

[marceror]

Does anyone ever really use high-tier ships btw? I don't find them really usefull actually as the enemy fleet is often not much more then a shamefur dispray

Well, when you're playing as Gondor, facing off against Corsair ships (which are anything but shameful) it doesn't hurt to have a couple of more powerful Gondorian ships in your fleet. It's easy to lose naval battles against Harad, as you don't have the advantage of good tactics here. It's all up to auto-resolve, and their ships look really good for auto-resolve purposes.

[Ngugi]

VH in 3.1 is like VVH in 2.1 have to be considered
Me myself would never play campaign as Gondor on VH, H (like VH in 2.1 thus) is about what kind of challenge I can face, and then I still can play VH as other factions.

[Lazy]

As Gondor you have only 1 option... Rushing as fast as you can!
Gather all your cavalry bodyguards from the east and RUN as fast as possible with them into Harad!
You do not have to retrain them and they are very strong...
Take 6-7 units ( I forgot the exact number of rebels inside that settlement...it was 6 or 7 ) and besiege the most eastern region... starve them to death!
Disband everything that you do not need in a settlement that is able to build these units... they will be added to the units available to recruit... even over the maximum! So you do not loose anything!

The rest of your army should go for Minas Morgul... try to besiege Osgiliath in the very first turn! This pike-general should be in the first line ALWAYS!
If you have not bad luck (bad luck => Invasion on NOT Edoras ) you can even make it without training that much units!
I made it this way
of course an invasian (even after is starts to look easy ) will beat you down "a little bit"...


Do not open this spoiler!

Spoiler for Do not open!: 

[Qba]

As Gondor you have only 1 option... Rushing as fast as you can!

What for? Blitzkrieg kills the enjoyment of the game...

[Spits32]

I got to about turn 75 in Gondor campaign on VH/VH, minus vanilla stack spam and garrison script. I held off mordor pretty well but yeah Harad just has stack after stack after stack, it gets really annoying. Probably would like M/VH for next campaign, I do like the challenging battles, they just get so many free units it's virtually impossible to keep up.

[Dealhit]

I will cry if VH/VH is not, let me say... VERY HARD.

[Påsan]

Neh, you are doing it wrong.

I am on turn 133 and I own both Harad and Mordor. Mordor have never gotten past E.Osgiliath and Harad have never got more than one settlement in Gondor before being thrown out.