The Italian States

**HMS England** · January 16, 2012, 03:42 PM

I've recently gotten into playing the Italian factions opposed to the usual Northern/Western Europeans and I must say, it's quite a different experience. Off the top of my head the biggest differences are

1. You start out with a huge population. The smallest settlement is the town of Florence which is already ready to upgrade to a large town as soon as you capture it.

2. Powerful militia. The bottom of the chain in the militia roster is the common Italian militia which alone could decimate the town militia and spear militia of the rest of the world. And in the Italian realm, the bow is not the standard weapon of ranged warfare like the rest of the world, the crossbow is.

3. Money. Once you unite the peninsula under one banner, Italy is an economic powerhouse. When I'm not in all out war, I almost have more money than I can use.

4. Armour. A full suit of nice armour in medieval society cost about as much as a 4 bedroom house would to us. The Italians take protection to a new level with their own unique style that everyone else can't wait to get their hands on.

So to you readers, which Italian State is your favorite and why? Also, do you have anything to add?

**Adamat** · January 16, 2012, 04:14 PM

Milan, fast expansion possible, starting territories next to eachother. Also, i just like the green

**Bringer Of Storms** · January 16, 2012, 05:22 PM

Venice. While I don't like how they treated the Byzantine/Roman Empire in history, its a game, and they're my favorite to play as. Not only that, they spawned my favorite general I've ever had in my entire Total War Career. Barbus the Crusader/Cruel/Manevolent/Scarred/Peaceful/Builder... ect. He almost switched names every turn. Also fought a battle nearly every turn. Maxed everything, except Piety. That was his undoing. Ahhh. I loved Barbus.. But the Pope, he did not.

Back to topic. I love Venice due to the immense amount of money, ease of building an army, and.. Well, your right next to three, maybe it's four major cities right off the bat. I haven't played Vanilla in ages, but I believe it's Bologna, Rome, Florence, and Milan. All right there, easy pickings.

**Sharpe** · January 16, 2012, 07:20 PM

Italian states are awesome early game, but their late game foot units (Men-at-Arms, Broken Lances) just get dominated by Zweihanders, Noble Foot Knights and other AP units.

**HMS England** · January 16, 2012, 09:59 PM

I also found it remarkable how advanced the Italian's late period technology is. Not only do they have good naval ships, but they have excellent gun-powder units and siege engines like the monster ribault, culverin, and my personal favorite... musketeers.

Sharpe, you're exactly right. Men-at-Arms for example have a high defense bonus based almost entirely on the high quality renaissance armour of the Italians (I believe +9 or something like that, which is comparable to Gendarmes). So when you get an armour piercing unit with a high attack anyway... there's gonna be some blood.

**PrestigeX** · January 16, 2012, 11:41 PM

Italian states are great. Milan feels like the most "italian" of them -- Venice has a lil too much eastern interests. Sicily seems like it should be used to fight Saracens rather than expand northward. The pope -- is it's own faction and everything but, hmm hardly counts since they usually do nothing but keep Rome.

I like Milan because of their colours - they just look great =P

The difficulty with Italy is the way you're vulnerable to naval invasion - usually more of a threat from enemy fleet blockading your ports and/or destroying your own boats (esp if they're troop transports!) though.

The pope right in the middle is a pain because - he is always a threat, you keep a weak garrison in florence he'll try to nab it, excommunicating you in the process! It's really a shame that the pope cannot be destroyed - but it can be easy enough to take over rome, and give the Pope -- Sardinia instead.

**eXistenZ** · January 17, 2012, 04:24 AM

Sicily. you can expand in any direction, and they have a nice varied unit roster

**King William the Conqueror** · January 17, 2012, 08:03 AM

I like Sicily because of their roster.

**Grymloq** · January 17, 2012, 09:12 AM

Venice, because of the multiple directions of expansion (Italy, Germany, Balkans and Eastern Europe, Aegean Sea, Turkey etc), their special units and also for patriotism

You forgot to mention the artillery, the Italians have one of the most developed roster of cannons

**Gazz** · January 17, 2012, 09:36 AM

Milan, because I love crossbows and green. :3

**ChivalrousKiller** · January 17, 2012, 10:32 AM

Venice is the obvious choice for the "best" faction, and it is also my favourite. The "eastern" touch mentioned above sort of enchanced the faction even more, and I love their starting position

**~~removeduser_3847562873423~~** · January 17, 2012, 12:48 PM

Venice because of the Venetian archer and Venetian heavy infantry. They look pretty cool. And you can expand everywhere with Venice from the beginning.

**In3x** · January 17, 2012, 01:05 PM

Sicily is the best faction I think, although it is close between them and Venice.

**=Bright=** · January 17, 2012, 01:37 PM

Papal states all the way.

**Silverheart** · January 17, 2012, 02:05 PM

Start a poll?
And I say Venice.
Their roster is a tad more unique than the others, they have more opportunities to expand (what with their starting regions being so spread out) and can make for very exciting colonial campaigns.

**HMS England** · January 17, 2012, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by =Bright=

Papal states all the way.

I halfway agree with that. I think they should have a larger variety but, then again, you have to alter the dcr_strat or whatever it is just to play them in the first place so hey, who's complaining

Papal Guard is beast.

Originally Posted by Silverheart

Start a poll?
And I say Venice.
Their roster is a tad more unique than the others, they have more opportunities to expand (what with their starting regions being so spread out) and can make for very exciting colonial campaigns.

That's a good idea. rep +, and you're right, they do have a tad more variety. It's a close call

Originally Posted by Grymloq

You forgot to mention the artillery, the Italians have one of the most developed roster of cannons

I used the culverin (the top artillery unit) as an example.

Personally, I like Milan the best because they're more cavalry oriented which is my fighting style. Also I think Green looks better on Italians. As for starting position, Milan has just as good of a starting position as any Italian State... except Sicily perhaps. They also start out with two Minor Cities that are adjacent which I like better than Venice which is spread out. Other than that, there really isn't much difference between the two. Now Sicily and The Papacy are another story entirely.

**Avatar** · January 17, 2012, 04:28 PM

Milan is a fantastic faction to play. Do it right and you have Italy and Germany in your control within 10 turns, then its just a case of pushing in the right directions. Not to mention that they can destroy France or HRE as a serious power and grab Venice from the incompetent AI.

I will admit though that Venice have a certain level of sticking power that compares to a cockroach. You think you've squashed them and then 15-20 turns later they come back at you with a couple of fresh stacks.

**El Cid99** · January 17, 2012, 05:52 PM

^IIRC, the basilisk is more advanced than the culverin (Spain gets the culverin first, for example, and many factions can access the culverin, but not the basilisk (England, Scotland, Italians).

Anyway, I like Venice the most. I love building Roman-type legions and trying to retake the Roman Empire (the Venetians are, after all, Roman). A general, 5 Venetian Archers, 4 cavalry units (stradiots, Broken Lances), 4 "auxilia" (Armoured Sergeants), 5 "legionaries" (Venetian Heavy Infantry), and a Carrocio standard gives you a legion at your command. The Byzantines/ Hungarians are a piece of cake; Venetian Archers can destroy Vardariotai/ Hungarian Nobles, and the VHI will defeat any infantry in the game, save Dismounted Conquistadores.

ROMA VICTOR!!!

**HMS England** · January 17, 2012, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by El Cid99

^IIRC, the basilisk is more advanced than the culverin (Spain gets the culverin first, for example, and many factions can access the culverin, but not the basilisk (England, Scotland, Italians).

Anyway, I like Venice the most. I love building Roman-type legions and trying to retake the Roman Empire (the Venetians are, after all, Roman). A general, 5 Venetian Archers, 4 cavalry units (stradiots, Broken Lances), 4 "auxilia" (Armoured Sergeants), 5 "legionaries" (Venetian Heavy Infantry), and a Carrocio standard gives you a legion at your command. The Byzantines/ Hungarians are a piece of cake; Venetian Archers can destroy Vardariotai/ Hungarian Nobles, and the VHI will defeat any infantry in the game, save Dismounted Conquistadores.

ROMA VICTOR!!!

You should redo your research pal.

1. Spain has no head start over any other faction when it comes to gunpowder weapons of any sort, it all depends on whoever upgrades their barracks and gunmaker buildings first.

2. Neither England, nor Scotland, nor any Italian State have the basilisk. The only ones to my knowledge that do are Spain, France, and the Holy Roman Empire. And Sicily, along with the HRE, have the "cannon" in place of the culverin which I believe is a tad better.