Chivalry decreases and I don't know why

**tudor93** · January 16, 2012, 07:21 AM

I'm playing a campaign with Denmark and I don't know why my generals keep loosing chivalry points

He is governing Bruges, the taxes are set on low (and no building was finished the same turn I got the mesage that his trait decreased), I don't know why this is happening ... it also happens to other 2-3 governors sometimes

**Justinijan** · January 16, 2012, 07:44 AM

Maybe,the reason that your general losing chivarly is the peace because he losing his condition, he would have more fighting.I thought it was the biggest reason when I played.

**Nosjack** · January 16, 2012, 09:12 AM

Perhaps he is doing some super-secret dastardly deeds in the middle of the night?

Otherwise, no idea.

**Ishan** · January 16, 2012, 09:26 AM

Post all the traits and buildings you have! Did you hire any assassins or something while the general was serving as a governor? Lets solve it!

**Sweger** · January 16, 2012, 12:28 PM

Is he married? I've seen princess-wives effecting trits in negative ways regarding loyalty and authority, maybe that could go for chivalry as well?

EDIT: Saw that he had a pagan magician. Does that effect more than just piety?

**Ishan** · January 16, 2012, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Sweger

EDIT: Saw that he had a pagan magician. Does that effect more than just piety?

No only piety, -2.

**tudor93** · January 16, 2012, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Sweger

Is he married? I've seen princess-wives effecting trits in negative ways regarding loyalty and authority, maybe that could go for chivalry as well?

I know what you are talking about,

wives also give other lots of bad traits, but here is not the case; he doesn't have any trait like "Wife is a witch"
Ishan: no, I never build brothels, thus I can't use spies/assassins or even recruit them

Here is another general that has the same problem:

I forgot to mention that in both cases something strange happened: at first the taxes in the cities governed by them were set on very high, but they were still getting traits like 'fair in rule' , after a while the chivalry started to decrease (in both cases) so I set the taxes on low, the chivalry again started to rise (and I let the taxes on low) and then started to drop again

another little question : Leofric Surtsson has the noble in battle and sense of justice traits, the first one gives +2chivalry and the last one gives +1chivalry but as you can see in the picture he only has 2 chivlary symbols ('blue helmets')

**HMS England** · January 16, 2012, 02:55 PM

I have the same problem pal. My generals, whether they're governing or not, mysteriously just begin to loose chivalry (In some cases dread if that's the way I want them to go).

Yet, on the opposite node.. I'm currently playing a campaign as Milan, and I've decided to go the chivalrous way when it comes to family members and conduct in general. I have released all prisoners I've captured, occupied all settlements (except for ones with low happiness and I still only sack them), and of course, don't start any wars. So, it's got to the point where I'm considered 'reliable'. My faction leader is also a crusading legend with full authority and almost full chivalry. And for whatever reason, my generals constantly get chivalry bonuses which leads me to believe faction reputation and the faction leader both play a very important role. Now that I think about it... I don't think I have 1 dreaded family member out of 20.

**tudor93** · January 16, 2012, 03:49 PM

Hmmm, strange, look what happened the next turn

note: a town watch has been constructed there this turn

**HMS England** · January 16, 2012, 03:53 PM

That's common with me too. Perhaps it's a bug. Check your faction's reputation and faction leader's traits for us real quick though before we jump to conclusions.

**tudor93** · January 17, 2012, 11:45 AM

my reputation is very reliable; I always act like a goodie goodie in my campaigns
as for the king, oh well, something strange is also happening in his case: at the start of the campaign, Prince Charles has 0 chivalry points; I wanted him to be a chivalrous guy so I always released the prisoners and I always occupied settlements when using him (well, it didn't matter what general I used because I always released/occupied as I stated in the first sentence of the post) but for some reason he gained lots of dread points; I called a crusade and sent him in the Holy Lands so he can gain some chivalry points, oh well he gained lots of them but on my way back I conqured Smolensk and I occupied it (not sack/exterminate) and I don't know why he got this trait:

it's annoying as hell
edit: and even his title changed from 'the Crusader' to 'Lord of Terror' ; what the hell man, he peacefully occupied the city, he didn't kill all the people and squish all the little kittens

**Teutonic Warlord** · January 17, 2012, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by tudor93

my reputation is very reliable; I always act like a goodie goodie in my campaigns
as for the king, oh well, something strange is also happening in his case: at the start of the campaign, Prince Charles has 0 chivalry points; I wanted him to be a chivalrous guy so I always released the prisoners and I always occupied settlements when using him (well, it didn't matter what general I used because I always released/occupied as I stated in the first sentence of the post) but for some reason he gained lots of dread points; I called a crusade and sent him in the Holy Lands so he can gain some chivalry points, oh well he gained lots of them but on my way back I conqured Smolensk and I occupied it (not sack/exterminate) and I don't know why he got this trait:

it's annoying as hell
edit: and even his title changed from 'the Crusader' to 'Lord of Terror' ; what the hell man, he peacefully occupied the city, he didn't kill all the people and squish all the little kittens

Wow. Your game must be some kind of

up. I do have a question, though. Did he have Battle Dread (Winning First, etc.) at any point or before that? It could explain the dread, and his actions or strategies you used could have just increased it along. Heck, once your guy goes down the trait line, I have seen them continue with just autoresolve.

**tudor93** · January 17, 2012, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Teutonic Warlord

Wow. Your game must be some kind of

up. I do have a question, though. Did he have Battle Dread (Winning First, etc.) at any point or before that? It could explain the dread, and his actions or strategies you used could have just increased it along. Heck, once your guy goes down the trait line, I have seen them continue with just autoresolve.

yes, of course he had, because I think this 'warlord of terror' trait is somehow an update of traits like 'Winning First' etc. ; but my question is, how did he managed in the first place to aquire a trait such as 'Winning first' when he only released and occupied ?
I asked a question a few months ago about how the fights against rebels affect the chivalry/dread of generals: as you all know, when you defeat rebels you don't have the option to execute/ransom/release them because their army automatically disapears from the campaign map even if there are still units left in that army - so do the captured guys count as 'executed' thus the general will get dread points ?

**Teutonic Warlord** · January 17, 2012, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by tudor93

yes, of course he had, because I think this 'warlord of terror' trait is somehow an update of traits like 'Winning First' etc. ; but my question is, how did he managed in the first place to aquire a trait such as 'Winning first' when he only released and occupied ?
I asked a question a few months ago about how the fights against rebels affect the chivalry/dread of generals: as you all know, when you defeat rebels you don't have the option to execute/ransom/release them because their army automatically disapears from the campaign map even if there are still units left in that army - so do the captured guys count as 'executed' thus the general will get dread points ?

Releasing prisoners and occupying settlements don't affect Battle Chivalry or Dread. Occupying a settlement will give Fair in Rule (or increase that trait line) and may give Soft Judge. Releasing prisoners may also give Soft Judge (I can't remember), but it does certainly offer Respects the Enemy, which will increase chivalry. It usually takes a few releases to get the trait for me.

As for captured rebels, capturing them has no real effect on your general. If they were executed as you wonder, your generals would get the Disrespects the Enemy trait, which I have never seen happen.

**Nazgûl Killer** · January 17, 2012, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by tudor93

my reputation is very reliable; I always act like a goodie goodie in my campaigns
as for the king, oh well, something strange is also happening in his case: at the start of the campaign, Prince Charles has 0 chivalry points; I wanted him to be a chivalrous guy so I always released the prisoners and I always occupied settlements when using him (well, it didn't matter what general I used because I always released/occupied as I stated in the first sentence of the post) but for some reason he gained lots of dread points; I called a crusade and sent him in the Holy Lands so he can gain some chivalry points, oh well he gained lots of them but on my way back I conqured Smolensk and I occupied it (not sack/exterminate) and I don't know why he got this trait:

it's annoying as hell
edit: and even his title changed from 'the Crusader' to 'Lord of Terror' ; what the hell man, he peacefully occupied the city, he didn't kill all the people and squish all the little kittens

Hmm, it looks to me as if you indeed got the "Battle Dread" trait. You often get this by routing and then chasing down your foes all over the map, which is something I'm positive you do. I usually do that, and although the vast majority of my generals have 3-4 chivalry or higher, they still get the "Battle Dread" traits.

Originally Posted by HMS England

That's common with me too. Perhaps it's a bug. Check your faction's reputation and faction leader's traits for us real quick though before we jump to conclusions.

Reputation has absolutely nothing to do with neither Chivalry nor Dread. Likewise, Dread and Chivalry do not affect reputation.

**Teutonic Warlord** · January 17, 2012, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Nazgûl Killer

Hmm, it looks to me as if you indeed got the "Battle Dread" trait. You often get this by routing and then chasing down your foes all over the map, which is something I'm positive you do. I usually do that, and although the vast majority of my generals have 3-4 chivalry or higher, they still get the "Battle Dread" traits.

Reputation has absolutely nothing to do with neither Chivalry nor Dread. Likewise, Dread and Chivalry do not affect reputation.

Are there any other actions that increase Battle Dread besides chasing routers? Most of the time it seems my generals get Battle Dread without capturing many/any prisoners. I even click End Battle when it comes up to avoid it, but that doesn't seem to help.

**Nazgûl Killer** · January 18, 2012, 02:55 PM

I think I read somewhere that your generals have a 50% chance at the end of a given battle to get either "Battle Chivalry" or "Battle Dread", and from there on they just keep going down that line - But that was never proven so take it with a pinch of salt.

**Sitalkes** · January 18, 2012, 04:58 PM

Having read the characteristics at http://totalwar.honga.net/traits.php...s&c=all&page=2 i now know that it is likely that if you fight battles with odds of less than 1:1 you gain chivalry and if you fight them at odds greater than 1:1 you gain dread. It also seems to help gain chivalry if you are the defender in a battle. The three best battle chivalry traits are: Champion of Honour, Bastion of Chivalry, and Saint of Battle - the last gives +5 Chivalry, +2 Authority. For some of these it is better to keep your general out of combat, as if he kills too many enemies he will be disqualified. Yes, if you have any battle dread it disqualifies you from getting these traits: When to test : PostBattle
Condition : not WasAttacker
IsGeneral
BattleOdds < 0.8
GeneralFoughtInCombat
not Trait BattleDread > 0
Affects : BattleChivalry 1
Chance : 100 %When to test : PostBattle
Condition : WonBattle
BattleSuccess >= average
PercentageEnemyKilled < 20
IsGeneral
BattleOdds < 0.95
not Trait BattleDread > 0
Affects : BattleChivalry 1
Chance : 33 %