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  1. #1

    Default Denmarks roster useless?

    is denmarks roster useless?

    all central european nations wait, till they can get the dismounted feudal soldier which is then their preferred soldier.

    denmark also has that one too, but every single viking like unit is completly useless and does relativly poorly in battle against the more armored units (even though the discription says they do well against armor)
    is denmarks roster underpowerd or is this wanted?


    the only good axe unit which does well 24/7 is the varangian guard of the byzs. those guys no matter what, stand their ground and just kill anything in their way!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    Honestly, I've always had vikings rip apart other European units, I have know idea what your problem is...

    Wait, are you playing an un-patched version maybe?

  3. #3
    Silverheart's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    What viking units are you using?
    Even Viking Raiders can make a great dent in any unit of heavy infantry, and the Huskarls (dimounted or not) are like the Norman Knights of sicily - always perform exceptionally well, even later on.
    Sure, the Norse Archers have only medium range and the two-handed Norse Axemen have the two-hander-bug making them perform poorly, but all other viking troops perform great.
    Also, the rest of Denmarks roster is almost overkill - you have the standard Feudal knights and Order Knights, plus the Norse War Clerics, the good-for-budget Norse Swordsmen and the halberdier troops Sword Staff Militia and Obudshaer.

    I´d say either it´s the patch, or you´re not very good with infantry-heavy tactics.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    My experience with Denmark was that they had simply overwhelming units. I'm not sure which units you're using, but generally I've seen my Danish Huscarls rip open the Polish knights, and also the German ones.
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  5. #5
    Stívarđr Reynitré's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    Denmark has always been a veritable behemoth for me...I must concur with my fellow posters here.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    There's a few units of denmark's that, look so attractive but really let-down ... for me it's the sword staff militia, and the norse axemen - lot of ppl would add Obudshaer too (but personally, I do find them worthwhile).

    Norse Archers have great protection as archers, they can even double-up as infantry if necessary. They come early on, and being able to produce lots of them is a huge advantage -- you don't have to protect them as much as you might with other archers.

    Norse Swordsmen are so Cheap, and very effective - these are the standard line infatry for my danish armies. 4-6 norse swords, maybe 2 foot huscarls too .

    Foot huscarls are expensive, but they're obviously amazing - AP axes, incredible stamina and good morale etc. IF you have no economy concerns just use tons of these guys, but if you are looking for more of a bargain just toss a couple of these in with your regular infantry (norse swords / viking raiders).
    Viking raiders are the first unit, and can easily be necessary at the end - free upkeep, and the ability to upgrade armor to Heavy Mail - just a standard, axe wielding infantry - perfect for filler.

    Denmark has to rely on her own Cavalry in order to counter enemy Horses -- Huscarls (mounted) and Norse Clerics - c.a. gives a bit of a clue having them with no lances, they're not soo much for aggression as they are for protection.
    Even the 'Scouts' the lowly light cav, has axes for hand-to-hand which adds just a teenie bit more sting vs. enemy horse men

  7. #7

    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    In Vanilla:

    Denmark is very good early on with the cheap and numerous viking units. Another use of the Norse Swordsman is to easily create a swordsmith guild in your castle. Of course, later on, the DCK becomes the standard infantry, so the viking infantry units do not have that much use later on as front line infantry. However, Denmark always has the advantage in numbers because there are so many units to choose from.

    Denmark has great cavalry. The Huscarl cavalry is much better than the Feudal Knight that other European Factions have. Also, the Norse War Cleric is better than the Chivalric Knight, and furthermore can be trained in cities, which is a huge advantage (the Norse War Cleric is slightly better than the Chiv Knight in melee; the Chiv Knight has higher charge bonus, but this stat is worthless in Vanilla).

    In Kingdoms:

    Denmark is excellent, because two handed units have been fixed, making the Norse Swordsman and the Halberdier much stronger. When combined with Norway to form the Kalmar Union, Denmark has the best roster in the Teutonic Campaign.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    playing vanialla 1.5 patch

    its just when you see the dismounted huscarl or the norse axefighter charge a dismounted feudal knight unit, they get chopped to pieces. I dont see how in your guys games, these guys beat the feudal knights. in one on one, they get chopped up at an abuot 2:1 death rate

    the heavy venetian infantry, also loses quite often one on one against the dismounted feudal knights. just seems to me, as if you dont really need any (european) unit diversity anymore once you have the dismounted feudal knigths.
    Last edited by Palandiell; January 15, 2012 at 02:29 AM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Palandiell View Post
    the heavy venetian infantry, also loses quite often one on one against the dismounted feudal knights. just seems to me, as if you dont really need any (european) unit diversity anymore once you have the dismounted feudal knigths.
    Venetian heavy infantry are absolute monsters in melee, with their AP hammers and heavy armour. If you are seeing those guys lose often in 1 on 1 fights then something is badly wrong. It's one thing for the 2 handed axe units to struggle, because of the widely known issue, but the venetians are a different type of unit.

    I've not really played Denmark, other than testing out some of their units on the grassy plain map, but I'd certainly say they can do some impressive damage if handled right. I'd go for some cheaper infantry (not peasant cheap) to initially engage the enemy knights and then try to have your axemen hit the engaged knights from the side. An AP charge that they cant properly brace themselves for should meet with better results.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avatar View Post
    Venetian heavy infantry are absolute monsters in melee, with their AP hammers and heavy armour. If you are seeing those guys lose often in 1 on 1 fights then something is badly wrong. It's one thing for the 2 handed axe units to struggle, because of the widely known issue, but the venetians are a different type of unit.

    I've not really played Denmark, other than testing out some of their units on the grassy plain map, but I'd certainly say they can do some impressive damage if handled right. I'd go for some cheaper infantry (not peasant cheap) to initially engage the enemy knights and then try to have your axemen hit the engaged knights from the side. An AP charge that they cant properly brace themselves for should meet with better results.
    I let the venitian unit and the danish units fight against the feudal knights one on one and the results is what I am talking about

  11. #11
    Silverheart's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Palandiell View Post
    I let the venitian unit and the danish units fight against the feudal knights one on one and the results is what I am talking about
    Well, there´s your problem right there - you´re relying too much on statistics, and too little on actual experience of using them.

    For a personal paralell, I´ve tried the same with Hashashims against other elite swordsmen units, and they get owned in one on one. But increase the numbers to 3-on-3 units, and suddenly they win easily - and they also outperform all other swordsmen infantry in campaign battles.

    My point is, don´t complain about their performance in a one-on-one custom battle, just start the campaign and try them out "for real" - the difference in performance is clearly noticeable.
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeratus View Post
    In Kingdoms:

    Denmark is excellent, because two handed units have been fixed, making the Norse Swordsman and the Halberdier much stronger. When combined with Norway to form the Kalmar Union, Denmark has the best roster in the Teutonic Campaign.
    It's possible I just didn't look close enough, but when I united to form the Kalmar union nothing happened. What does it do beside change the flag to the red cross on a yellow banner?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    VHI should own DFKs. I don't think it's even necessary to test this.

    Otherwise, the DFK and DCK eliminates the need for European unit diversity in terms of infantry, but Denmark still has superior cavalry compared to most other European factions.

  14. #14
    eXistenZ's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    arent the twohand units bugged too? norway has a few of them

  15. #15

    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    I've never seen DFK take huscarl when they have even numbers, no matter if it's one vs one or ten vs ten, I'll loose maybe 1/3. I'd even put Viking Raiders up against DFK with even numbers, though they may not win, they'd put up a serious fight, and probably only loose cause the DFK have higher morale. Denmark is my favorite faction, except, they are simply over powered.

    That applies to Vanilla and Teutonic campaign, unless your playing a mod I've honestly never seen anything like what your talking about...

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    Id suggest downloading SS, denmark gets an amazing rooster. But if vanilla is your way then Denmark have the downright best early rooster in game. Viking Raiders are amazing the first 20 turns, so fast early exspantion should be your top priority.

    One thing I always did was launching a 'Viking' raid to the Mediterranean, send a boat down there with your superior early infantry and sack all the unprotected cities you come across, the Moors, Egypt, Turks and Byzantines are prime targets, but take any Christian cities if you don't care about the pope. (I once raided and demolished every building in Constantinople by turn 18 as Denmark )

  17. #17

    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    I dont even use full stacks with them i use about 3/4 stacks and can tear through enemy armies no problem at all.
    Even late game my border guard forces are always early game units simply because they are still more then a match for almost any late game army.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    As everyone else has stated, Denmark has an amazing roster. I've never once had a performance problem with them in a fight. As said above, if you rely too much on statistics, you won't get very far.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    In vanilla M2TW dismounted Huscarls, vikings, obudshaers, basically everything loses to DFK. In Kingdoms however things change. Huscarls are on par with DFK and Obudshaer and swordstaff militia w/ armor upgrade demolish them. Also in Kingdoms Huscarls, both mounted and dismounted have the "frighten enemy infantry" trait which can sent entire armies running if you have many units of them.

    As for venetian heavy infantry, in vanilla they are simply better than DFK and DCK, never seen them lose in a 1v1 fight. In Kingdoms they were heavily nerfed and perform about the same as spear militia.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Denmarks roster useless?

    Quote Originally Posted by GNU07 View Post
    In vanilla M2TW dismounted Huscarls, vikings, obudshaers, basically everything loses to DFK. In Kingdoms however things change. Huscarls are on par with DFK and Obudshaer and swordstaff militia w/ armor upgrade demolish them. Also in Kingdoms Huscarls, both mounted and dismounted have the "frighten enemy infantry" trait which can sent entire armies running if you have many units of them.

    As for venetian heavy infantry, in vanilla they are simply better than DFK and DCK, never seen them lose in a 1v1 fight. In Kingdoms they were heavily nerfed and perform about the same as spear militia.
    mmh, I am confused now. I have the game M2TW gold edition, which includes the addon kingdoms. but I am not playing the tutonic campaign, but the general one. so if yiou speak of m2tw vanilla, do you mean my edition, or just the plain one without the addons?

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