OOTMM and Gundabad bodyguards suck!
They get owned vs all evlen units, and all dwarf units.
>Third age
>Not having warg mounted bodyguards, or god tier goblin bodyguards.
Civis
Warg Bodyguards
OOTMM and Gundabad bodyguards suck!
They get owned vs all evlen units, and all dwarf units.
>Third age
>Not having warg mounted bodyguards, or god tier goblin bodyguards.
Be of one mind and one faith, that you may conquer your enemies and lead long and happy lives.
Conquering the world on horseback is easy; it is dismounting and governing that is hard.
The greatest joy for a man is to defeat his enemies, to drive them before him, to take from them all they possess, to see those they love in tears, to ride their horses, and to hold their wives and daughters in his arms.
Re: Warg Bodyguards
Id also like to add the fact that it sais in the bodyguard description that they are picked from the largest of orcs , yet the in game model has them shorter than goblins they look like dwarves in orcish armor.
Civis
Re: Warg Bodyguards
They still get owned by literally every other bodyguard though.
And every elven unit one on one.
Be of one mind and one faith, that you may conquer your enemies and lead long and happy lives.
Conquering the world on horseback is easy; it is dismounting and governing that is hard.
The greatest joy for a man is to defeat his enemies, to drive them before him, to take from them all they possess, to see those they love in tears, to ride their horses, and to hold their wives and daughters in his arms.
Biarchus
Re: Warg Bodyguards
They get owned because they are orcs!
Orcs get owned by every good soldier!
Their only Wargs advantage is in causing fear and beeing able to run down fleeing enemies!
Last edited by Lazy; January 13, 2012 at 11:39 AM.
Originally Posted by SirWarts
Primicerius
Re: Warg Bodyguards
Great idea. At least one, Angmar/Gundabad or Misty Mountains Orcs, should get a Warg rider general unit. I have been wondering why there is only one kind of warg rider.....
Miles
Re: Warg Bodyguards
Troll bodyguards (with some balancing) would fit much better
Protector Domesticus
Re: Warg Bodyguards
Most trolls can't think or speak so I guess they are not very good commanders
Shiny
Re: Warg Bodyguards
I had armoured warg bodyguards in my submod frogs and ill probably have them in again when it gets back up and running, thatl be about a month though.
i like troll bodyguards to, ill look into it.
The Orcs of Gundabad Erin go Bragh FROGS
When I came back to Dublin I was court marshaled in my absence and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence"
Brendan Behan
The Irish won an Empire
The Scots ran an Empire
The English lost an Empire
"When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said, 'Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don't believe?"
- Quentin Crisp
There is one weapon that the British cannot take away from us: we can ignore them.
- Michael Collins
They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken.
- Bobby Sands
Primicerius
Re: Warg Bodyguards
I disagree with Trolls, unless there is something in the lore about a more controlled, orderly breed -- don't know much about the various ones. I know Olog Hai could qualify but not for the factions we're discussing.... so troll bodyguards seem "unrealistc." Not to mention that would probably put far too many trolls into the field and they are ridiculously hard to kill. You'd then have a super unit, regenerating for free after each battle.
An armored bunch of hand picked warg riders seem much more fitting, especially given the many stories about them. In gameplay terms they also allow for the general to be mobile and present himself quickly where needed or escape, without being crazily overpowered.
Though it also seems like the Orcs of the Misty's/goblins should be on foot with huge goblin bodyguards lore-wise.
I would like to see Warg riders or something inventive for Gundabad, with perhaps a change in bodyguard with a restoration of Angmar event
Last edited by Dago Red; January 13, 2012 at 02:05 PM.
Shiny
Re: Warg Bodyguards
Im going to consult ngugi on the lore aspect before i would introduce trolls, of course theres to ones in the hobbit that talk, but toliken moves towards a darker more, primal type by lotr.
Niether would be the main bodyguard of the faction, the foot orcs would remain as that, recruitible in some places or spawn every so many turns i think 25 for wargs and 40 for trolls. One of the distingusing features of the orcs is there foot guards. Only a small boost not making them OP.
The Orcs of Gundabad Erin go Bragh FROGS
When I came back to Dublin I was court marshaled in my absence and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence"
Brendan Behan
The Irish won an Empire
The Scots ran an Empire
The English lost an Empire
"When I told the people of Northern Ireland that I was an atheist, a woman in the audience stood up and said, 'Yes, but is it the God of the Catholics or the God of the Protestants in whom you don't believe?"
- Quentin Crisp
There is one weapon that the British cannot take away from us: we can ignore them.
- Michael Collins
They have nothing in their whole imperial arsenal that can break the spirit of one Irishman who doesn't want to be broken.
- Bobby Sands
Senator
Re: Warg Bodyguards
trolls are a little bit much...id say put them back on foot and make them much more armoured, or nperhaps increase hitpoints for survivability.
Hva i helvete?
Re: Warg Bodyguards
Warg riding Orc bodyguards are fitting. We know they are in close alliance with Wargs and currently Wargs/Wolfs are far too misrepresented in comparison to their fairly major role in the books. Id argue that beside Orcs, Wargs and Wolves was the greatest assets of the evil orc based factions, not Trolls. Yet we have 5 different units of Trolls and only 1 type of Warg Riders.
That said, Orc Bodyguards are pretty much always described to be large orks on foot.
Last edited by Påsan; January 13, 2012 at 02:13 PM.
Senator
Re: Warg Bodyguards
The best way to balance tham is to increse number of budyguards,for example 120-150...in my compilation they are 100 but still balance in game of orc factions make their number...from start give to Gundabad 8000 units against 1000 elves...who still fight and not retreat to Valinor and you will see balance...
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=510831
This is an orc army against little garnison of elves...
Win battles with this garnison of elves of 800 men aginst OOM army of 100000...
Campidoctor
Re: Warg Bodyguards
I don't know how lore friendly it would be, but a single general for the Orcs, with some slightly more docile, less ferocious trolls (i.e. less powerful trolls than can be trained) would be pretty neat, and give the generally weak orc factions an extra edge in the early game. I would limit it to a single general, probably the faction leader -- probably a snoll troll for OoG and a Cave Troll for OotMM. Then, a few generals with Wargs and the rest with Orc Infantry, with perhaps with some additional soldiers would add some nice variety to the OotMM and OoG.
Civis
Re: Warg Bodyguards
Yeah
Because at the moment if you have cavalry or archer spam or are dwarfs, Orc factions are so easy to defeat.
Hammer and Anvil kills the general so easily. Or light archer skirmish spam wears them down.
Warg riders suck, they need to actually be able to take a unit of cavalry or swordsmen 1 on 1 including the charge. Otherwise they are just pincushion weak shock units.
Orcs bodyguards are so weak for the size. One unit of arnor spearmen killed an orc bodyguard i fought. And a single unit of light archers killed them. Pretty much any unit can kill them, they at least need some HP boost, or stat boost to make up for the size. Compare the dwarf bodyguard of equal size to orc ones. And put them 1v1 and guess who wins?
Solution: Wargs, wargs everywhere. Or at the very least beserker style goblins.
Be of one mind and one faith, that you may conquer your enemies and lead long and happy lives.
Conquering the world on horseback is easy; it is dismounting and governing that is hard.
The greatest joy for a man is to defeat his enemies, to drive them before him, to take from them all they possess, to see those they love in tears, to ride their horses, and to hold their wives and daughters in his arms.
Re: Warg Bodyguards
You could always shrink the number of soldiers in the non goblin armies too. Doing so would not only balance things out for the Orcs, but make a 251 orc unit seem actually intimidating by its size alone, and make for 100 plus man units a rare thing on the battlefield.
Re: Warg Bodyguards
they should get mounted guards to make them fun to play as, it's as simple as that. Gameplay should always come before lore because first and foremost this is a game. Besides it's not like you are giving them Harleys, it's far from lore breaking
Script To The Waist
Re: Warg Bodyguards
How about Trolls on Wargs?
Seriously though, I tried Trolls once and the general's sword was hanging in the air about a meter to his right, where it would be if he was a Troll.
Campidoctor
Re: Warg Bodyguards
I'm sure it's possible to make it work, as Troll Catapults have an orc "sergeant" who wields his sword with proper positioning.
Ducenarius
Re: Warg Bodyguards
I think Wargs on Trolls would be better.
Whether he was an orc is also debatable.
"Romans regarded peace not as an absence of war, but the rare situation that existed when all opponents had been beaten down and lost the ability to resist."
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