Why the election of Ron Paul would be a disaster for the world

[RTW Fan]

If Ron Paul were to be elected as the President of the United States, it would be an unmitigated disaster for the world.

Take his most poignant foreign policy proposal, the withdrawal of American troops from it's so called "empire" and the general decline of the American military leviathan.

In my own country, Australia, for example, this would lead to a high amount of instability and unpredictability. To the north, we are literally outnumbered by Asiatics by 70-100 times. In order to secure our sovereignty, we would need to create our own limited nuclear arsenal, which would be reciprocated potentially by states like Indonesia, the Phillipines and Vietnam. As such the path towards nuclear holocaust will have increased many times.

But let us look indeed about what the absence of American power in East in a general sense would mean:

If China were to cast imperious eyes towards us, or indeed to any nation that is part of the American envelopment, from India through Indo-China to Japan and Korea, due to the vacuum of American power in the region, it could lead to a great general war in the East, at least at the scale of the wars of the last century. China would probably find itself arraigned against an alliance that included India, Australia/New Zealand, Vietnam, Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, the Phillipines, (maybe Indonesia) and Japan. China's only realistic allies would be North Korea and Pakistan. Such a scenario, between two great alliances, could only be tested by war.

This is before you even consider what the absence of American power in the west might mean.

[Admiral Piett]

So basically the only reason why is because you feel threatened by Asians?

[hellheaven1987]

Do Australians even have a backbone to protect themselves?

[RTW Fan]

So basically the only reason why is because you feel threatened by Asians?

Actually, that was just one of the reasons, and the complications of an advanced western nation like Australia, being sincerely in fear of Asians, would at the very least lead to nuclear proliferation(a bad thing), as well as potentially creating a catalyst for a general Eastern war.

Do Australians even have a backbone to protect themselves?

Oh we have the backbone to protect ourselves, after all, it was Australians that won WW1 protecting France, when the appearence of the Australian men, in an offensive minded spirit completely shattered the morale of the Germans. Or in WW2, where we were apparently the only soldiers who could stand up to the Japanese for the 1st 6 months.

The question comes to the calamitous state that the East would be in, if there was a sudden vacuum created by the withdrawal of American power, as Ron Paul would have it.

[Prosaic Visitant]

Do Australians even have a backbone to protect themselves?

No; out government would probably surrender at the thought of doing anything difficult.

[hellheaven1987]

No; out government would probably surrender at the thought of doing anything difficult.

Now you actually convince me Australia really needs American commissars in war.

[Prosaic Visitant]

Do Australians even have a backbone to protect themselves?

No; our government would probably surrender at the thought of doing anything difficult.

[Exarch]

No; our government would probably surrender at the thought of doing anything difficult.

bring on the Republic, already

and lynch all those traitors and 'manchurian candidates'

[bushbush]

I don't really know of any Asian country having a slight hint of intention to conquer Australia. In fact, China and India are both trying to be good buddies with Australia to trade minerals. The closest "imperial ambition" for China is South-China sea, which will take China decades to settle all the claims. Looking ahead, domestic stability is still China's top priority. I think your fear of "Asians" is without much basis.

[Sphere]

I completely agree with Ron Paul that the US tax payer should not be in the business of the long term propping up of dictators.

On the other hand I completely disagree that the US shouldn't be in the business of standing behind like-minded liberal democracies such as Australia, in both substance as well as in rhetoric. Ich Bin ein Berliner is as noble a sentiment today as it was in in 1963, and to suggest that the risking of American blood in places like South Korea, Australia, Taiwan etc. is not a worthy cause, is an insult the ideals that bind us together as a nation.

We are American's because we believe in a set of idea's, we cannot abandon these idea's on the internationally stage and still be claim to be the same nation that freed and protected Western Europe, and put Japan on a path to democracy, peace and prosperity.

[RTW Fan]

I don't really know of any Asian country having a slight hint of intention to conquer Australia. In fact, China and India are both trying to be good buddies with Australia to trade minerals. The closest "imperial ambition" for China is South-China sea, which will take China decades to settle all the claims. Looking ahead, domestic stability is still China's top priority. I think your fear of "Asians" is without much basis.

Yeah, but with the withdrawal of American military power from the area, and repudiation of the alliances, I am sure these things would be settled much more quickly in China's favour. Than what? As you said, you want our minerals.

And that is to ignore Indonesia, directly to the north. After all, the aborigines of the Northern Territory are kinsmen of the Indonesians.

[bushbush]

Yeah, but with the withdrawal of American military power from the area, and repudiation of the alliances, I am sure these things would be settled much more quickly in China's favour. Than what? As you said, you want our minerals.

And that is to ignore Indonesia, directly to the north. After all, the aborigines of the Northern Territory are kinsmen of the Indonesians.

1. Withdrawal of US troops doesn't mean troops can't come to Australia's rescue later. How many marines are in Australia? Do you think that's enough if one of the Asian countries wants to invade? Reinforcements will have to come in either case.

2. What exactly is your basis that an Asian country will invade Australia? For minerals? China and others can already trade them with Aussies at a good price, certainly better than risking a nasty war from a long distance.

and for Indonesia to invade? really? any signal that is likely to happen?

We can worry about anything without much basis. That would be paranoia.

[Ak1980]

Yeah, but with the withdrawal of American military power from the area, and repudiation of the alliances, I am sure these things would be settled much more quickly in China's favour. Than what? As you said, you want our minerals.

And that is to ignore Indonesia, directly to the north. After all, the aborigines of the Northern Territory are kinsmen of the Indonesians.

Have you open any site that list Indonesia military and compare it to Australia military recently?

Seriously i almost never read anything exclusively about Australia in Indonesia newspaper, Indonesia care more about Asean, EU, China, JP, Korea and USA than Australia. Also both the aborigines of the Northern Territory and their kinsmen in Indonesia are minority in both country, the chance that they can help each other is remote at the best.

But it's nice to read that at least there is some citizen of one big country afraid with Indonesia military might

[Captain Jin]

I completely agree with Ron Paul that the US tax payer should not be in the business of the long term propping up of dictators.

On the other hand I completely disagree that the US shouldn't be in the business of standing behind like-minded liberal democracies such as Australia, in both substance as well as in rhetoric. Ich Bin ein Berliner is as noble a sentiment today as it was in in 1963, and to suggest that the risking of American blood in places like South Korea, Australia, Taiwan etc. is not a worthy cause, is an insult the ideals that bind us together as a nation.

We are American's because we believe in a set of idea's, we cannot abandon these idea's on the internationally stage and still be claim to be the same nation that freed and protected Western Europe, and put Japan on a path to democracy, peace and prosperity.

I wholeheartedly support this statement.

[bushbush]

I completely agree with Ron Paul that the US tax payer should not be in the business of the long term propping up of dictators.

On the other hand I completely disagree that the US shouldn't be in the business of standing behind like-minded liberal democracies such as Australia, in both substance as well as in rhetoric. Ich Bin ein Berliner is as noble a sentiment today as it was in in 1963, and to suggest that the risking of American blood in places like South Korea, Australia, Taiwan etc. is not a worthy cause, is an insult the ideals that bind us together as a nation.

We are American's because we believe in a set of idea's, we cannot abandon these idea's on the internationally stage and still be claim to be the same nation that freed and protected Western Europe, and put Japan on a path to democracy, peace and prosperity.

protect these ideas against whom?

There is no nation-state bloc that is still an ideological enemy left to liberal (or in some cases illiberal) democracies. The enemy today that is most threatening seems to be a few nut-job dictators with nukes and international terrorism.

To combat them, you need more than just a league of ideologically friendly nations. You will need cooperation with countries like China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, India, Pakistan, etc. to deal with Iran, North Korea and terrorists.

I don't think Ron Paul is right here. But I do think it is time for US to adjust its strategic outlooks. The future is not going to be US-led NATO policing the world. US and NATO alone can't solve world's problems (see Iran and North Korea). US as first among equals working with other countries can (see Darfur, errr...eventually).

[YuriVII]

Hmmm, not going out on senseless wars in the Middle East puts Australia's existence at risk. Huh, learn something new everyday.

[Denkron]

Hmmm, not going out on senseless wars in the Middle East puts Australia's existence at risk. Huh, learn something new everyday.

nice

[SLN445]

China has no reason to invade us, we got nothing thats worth conducting an invasion and a high cost occupation over.
We already sell most of our resources and even though we got a ton of space we can barely support the few million we have already.

[bushbush]

China has no reason to invade us, we got nothing thats worth conducting an invasion and a high cost occupation over.
We already sell most of our resources and even though we got a ton of space we can barely support the few million we have already.

I think OP's fear is based on rather irrational reasons. Maybe the old "yellow hordes" fear?

OP, you don't really need to fear Asian countries just because they look different. The only modern Asian country that had an imperialistic ideology was Japan. Most Asian countries emerged as former colonies or victims of colonial powers. European countries have shown much more imperialistic aggression in the 19th and 20th centuries.

[RTW Fan]

Hmmm, not going out on senseless wars in the Middle East puts Australia's existence at risk. Huh, learn something new everyday.

That is not Paul's policy in it's completeness. His policy is the withdrawal from entangling alliances.

Have you open any site that list Indonesia military and compare it to Australia military recently?

Seriously i almost never read anything exclusively about Australia in Indonesia newspaper, Indonesia care more about Asean, EU, China, JP, Korea and USA than Australia. Also both the aborigines of the Northern Territory and their kinsmen in Indonesia are minority in both country, the chance that they can help each other is remote at the best.

But it's nice to read that at least there is some citizen of one big country afraid with Indonesia military might

Australia has kept substantial amounts of it's military in the Northern Territory for a long time now because if memory serves me correctly, the climate is good for it. Yes we fear Indonesia, you outnumber us 7-1.

China has no reason to invade us, we got nothing thats worth conducting an invasion and a high cost occupation over.
We already sell most of our resources and even though we got a ton of space we can barely support the few million we have already.

Apart from massive amounts of uranium and gold. We easily support our numbers.

I think OP's fear is based on rather irrational reasons. Maybe the old "yellow hordes" fear?

OP, you don't really need to fear Asian countries just because they look different. The only modern Asian country that had an imperialistic ideology was Japan. Most Asian countries emerged as former colonies or victims of colonial powers. European countries have shown much more imperialistic aggression in the 19th and 20th centuries.

Victims? You mean they were freed from centurie's long despotism and had decent schools made for them. If a country like Australia existed in the 19th century just south of Europe, one of them would of taken it, why would China not now have aspirations?