Did King Kong Outsource 3.1?

[Gaiserix]

The custom settlements are amazing, but there are so many inconsistencies in this release, so I doubt that King Kong has actually been involved besides the settlements. King Kongs work is always balanced and tested, but there are so many wacky things in 3.1 which are "out-of-character".

For example:
- Cavalry charge (see seperate thread)
- Reduction of population growth (fair enough, but please change the ancillary and trait descriptions when commenting out squalor effects. Just fyi, there are no ancillaries reducing the effects of squalor. Not even Architect.)
- Ballista Towers and defences in custom settlements (see other thread)
- Economy! 9600 for a Great market which will increase trade base by 1. It's not a challenge - it's just stupid.
- Bimaristan is no longer available for Harad - why not?
- Maybe Germanicus' scripts are causingt a little havoc in custom settlements. AI is normally bad, but now they are just lame
- diplomacy
- and last but not least, the lack of population growth and income from governors (obedience) - maybe 0.25% growth per shield (max 2.5%) and a significant increase in admin revenue (easy changes in descr_settlement_mechanics

just my 0.2 coins

[MasterBigAb]

I doubt that King Kong has actually been involved besides

The opposite is the case.

[Gaiserix]

The opposite is the case.

Good to know, so what's up with all the wacky changes to core gameplay? Commenting out effects normally mean that you also change the corresponding text file - right?

[marceror]

In reality, I think at the end of the day this project was just so huge, carried out primarily by a single individual on his personal time... not surprising that a lot of little things can use some adjusting. Generally speaking though, these are little things. The mod is quite playable and quite stable. You would probably be better serve providing your feedback in the "first impressions" thread so that KK and team can look them over, and see what they're going to adjust in future releases.

[Gaiserix]

In reality, I think at the end of the day this project was just so huge, carried out primarily by a single individual on his personal time... not surprising that a lot of little things can use some adjusting. Generally speaking though, these are little things. The mod is quite playable and quite stable. You would probably be better serve providing your feedback in the "first impressions" thread so that KK and team can look them over, and see what they're going to adjust in future releases.

They are indeed little things and I have praised this Mod many times (and voted on MOD DB). However, these small anomalies are taking my focus away from the beutiful parts of 3.1 I'll shut up now

[alreadyded]

Maybe KK just made 3.0 how he wanted it, or maybe he didn't have enough time or help, or maybe he didn't test it much... there are probably several reasons.

Each one of the things you comment about can be fixed/edited in a matter of minutes to your taste. If you are waiting for KK to do it for you, you may be waiting a very long while.

[King Kong]

@Gaiserix,
I really hate it when I feel I have to "defend" myself, but in this case I have to add my 2 cents, too.

My suspicion that many people who complain about the new mechanics are just not used to them. Maybe they are also just bad, I don't know.
However, I can just tell you that I have tested this version endelessely and much much more than any other versions (besides not one CTD in hundreds of testing hours).
Even just the population growth mechanics needed weeks to be developed (with pen, paper and maths; you can't imagine what a work this was) and also if many people don't like them, they work exactly like I have imagined and calculated. I would dare to say that I'm maybe the only one who does comepletely know how the population mechanics of M2 work and who does know every factor that is influencing them.
My simple aim for the population in this version was that at turn 200 not every settlement should be a huge city like in 2.1, I found this was very important, because it destroyed the whole LOTR feelings for me. Actually I can't understand why now so many people complain about this. Would you rather like to see every illage to be fully developed at turn 150/200?
Anyway, no matter what I do, people will always complain, but personally I think it was the right way to go.

Some brief answers to your other complaints: cavalry charge is the same as in 2.1, it's really strange what people sometimes "feel" what would have been changed (probably it's nostalgia).
The great market price is just logical, it's an end-game building and there the player has always too much money and can afford this building easily.
The ballist towers: sorry for having overlooked something.

So, my recommendation for you would be to play another mod if you feel that 3.1 is so imbalanced and full of errors. Unfortunately I couldn't spend another year to fix those huge problems.
I really can listen to critics and negative feedback, but I just wanted to answer you, so that at least you know now that it was mainly me who produced this "outsourced" mod.

[Darth Lord Revan]

Auch...

Well, I will not defend the critics King Kong, but I think it's your fault... You keep producing fantastic mods... they don't feel like mods. They actually have less bugs as comercial realeases. You've set the standards too high...

On the other hand, you might know right now, that you can't allways please everybody with what you do and that a lot of people will expect YOU to make the game THEY especifically want to play = not possible.

As for the critics, I think recruiting is in the center of the problem and how do the settlements respond to that. I agree that not all settlements should be able to grow very big (and that's a great improvement in this version) but some people still likes a more arcade approach. Some tweaks are allways possible as, for instance, being able to recruit AOR units a bit earlier (because waiting to upgrade the cities for them takes 130-160 turns) but those are minor adjustments that can be suggested (as they already were) If they don't make it to the vanilla version, then a submod will probably do it.

I don't have to say it again but... well, yes I will: THANK YOU KING KONG and team (and the outsource slave labor force ) for this wonderfull game!!!

[leo.civil.uefs]

This thread should be closed for avoiding more embarrassing situations.

Would like to say something that sounds obvious but due to the amount of "critics" recently posted in the forums, I think it worth to say.

KingKong could be playing his TATW mod alone in his house and never share it with the world. But he dont.

If someone dont like to see something changed, post it in the "sugestion" thread.

If someone think no one will change it for you, start modding by yourself.

KingKong receives no money for all his work and still he answers in the forums and try to please people the way he can. Something that Big Game companies normally dont do.

Now Im not defending anyone here since no one knows each other and Im quite right that none of us give a Fu...k about each other here. (I include myself on this )

Its just that the words "work", "modding" and "free" should be more understanded.

And Im not refeering to this thread creator since his critics actually dont look nosense, I just spell something I think is universal, but again... too obvious.

the population growth mechanics needed weeks to be developed (with pen, paper and maths; you can't imagine what a work this was)

... ....................................................... I think that says all.

[webba84]

As someone who came fresh to 3.1 without having played earlier versions Id like to add that it seems to me a lot of what people have trouble with is also related to it simply being different from before, as opposed to better or worse (and I suspect that it is considerably better than before), since I have had none of the issues with balance or population growth that others have described.

On that topic, I would be very interested in that population growth maths KK. If it would take too long to explain then please dont bother but if you have it written down somewhere easy to find I would love to have a look at it.

[Nemesis_GR]

KingKong the problem is that u made Stainless Steel which is in my eyes a flawless mod in every aspect.Now all we want is perfection!


ps.The problems are real through.I actually had to learn some modding myshelf in order to "fix" a lot of staff...

[C.Maximus]

Actually I can't understand why now so many people complain about this. Would you rather like to see every illage to be fully developed at turn 150/200?
Anyway, no matter what I do, people will always complain, but personally I think it was the right way to go.

" mod.

I totally back you up inhis decision. But I am a fan of long dragged out campaigns.. 500or so turns is my average quitting point in good campaigns... Tho.. I doubt that every tw player likes that. Some may Need a faster Submod so that can have 100turn games or 150.. Not have to fight for 600 turns to make hobbiton a huge bustling city... Everyone likes different things... Good is relative to taste. I like the new additions to mechanics.... I can't spit Orc armies out of conquored elvish lands in two or three turns. And I actually have to bring them in from mordor.. Btw. if anyone has ever played broken crescent and liked it... This new version of third age holds similar frustrations and difficulties when attacking foreign lands

[SkyTrickster]

I gotta admit that 3.0 and 3.1 has a quite different feeling opposed to 2.1 somehow.. Can't really lay my finger on it. However not in bad way, I think it just some accustoming that comes while playing it. I really like all the changes though, its so varied and large now with so many options, I almost don't know what to do when I start the game.

Also a lot of things are personal preferences, which can be adjusted by small sub mods and they are already there if you need 'm. For me King Kong did once again a master job and exceeded all my expectations

[stevehoos]

Every mod has its subjective feedback based on peoples various styles of approach. If you don't like something you can always change it yourself. Just be glad we have people like KK who do things like this for a floundering video game industry that really lacks strategy, length, depth, and replayability. Mods like this are submersive enough to equate reading a great book, especially for people who love the Lord of the Rings Trilogy. Human beings are never happy with anything, except the perceived accomplishment of our next endeavor. Except with this mod

[Mau5Warrior]

Personally I think the thread should be closed.

As stated in many posts above the complaints made can be fixed yourself.

If you really don't like the vanilla and don't know how to change it turn to sub mods ? I'm pretty sure thats why sub mods were invented so people can change a mod to suit their needs.

I agree with 'orclover' with his first statement (others were a bit brutal ) saying that he didn't even need a response as this thread has caused KK to waste time to defend his work which to me has the fewest bugs out of all the versions. As you can see by his posts today he is trying to fix bugs like the ballista towers which if i am correct would benefit you ?

I am not attacking you 'gaiserix', but i just feel the complaints are petty in my opinion. However, everyone is entitled to one which I respect

I think everyone needs to get off TW Center for the night and go and enjoy TATW which is astonishing and everyone receives it for free!!!

Good night and god bless

[Black_ice_Spain]

I think there should be some fast (2.1s population growth and maybe faster build/recruit/refill times etc, i guess it can be done via submod too ) and slow campaign?.

I also like the feeling about not-everything-is-huge at turn 200, but most of my campaings dont last more than 100-150 turns (i get owned or i own AI and get bored when i have like 40+ regions), i dont know others, altho i dont manage economy a lot nor care about it, i just build economy buildings, and military ones, without a real order, and manage taxes each few turns.

I also like that feeling of everything being huge cities, if they grow under my command, but more in SS than here.

Other "bugs" mentioned here, are that, bugs, not that any developer would want his city to dont have towers, nor "bad" AI. (for example, in that hidden settlement which its a lake (where in films faramir almost kills gollum), mordor RAMs wont get into the gate ._.
Cav charge feels the same than always in my opinion.

BUT remember, we were CLAIMING about getting it released soon, so its a little tradeoff.

And... lets be serious, everything gets solved when defending osgiliath with boromir and faramir between 3000 orcs *_*

[orclover]

Honestly the guy didn't deserve a response.... he complained about things he doesn't understand and which if he did he could take 10 minutes to change himself... at least to match his expectations. it is funny when a player of a mod that is completely open source complains about a release that is the least bug free most amazing expansion of any game I have played... whether it is made by EA, Turbine, Blizzard... or by one guy. LOTRO online had a 21 month break in between releases with less high quality stuff than KK released by himself... the skill and sacrifice he gives is amazing. And we get bug fixers in days instead of months...I am still bothered by Skyrim because one update ruined the game for me for a month. It is so sad, that this mod that has been downloaded by likely 100 k people for 0 compensation is criticized. Perspective is a beautiful thing... and thanks KK for all you do.

[koreanschoolkid]

Long time lurker, extremely new member here
I've been playing since 1.0 and my brother and I always wondered if the devs for SS and TATW had real jobs and families given the time it must take to make these mods. Recently I asked on how to insert a building for a faction and got an answer within hours so I think the community here can be really helpful even to a complete newcomer. If something feels off then try asking around OP and you might be able to change the game more to your liking. I remember back when people thought trolls were unkillable gods and now with tweaks there are people who think they are too weak. It takes time to work that stuff out I guess...
That said anyone know how to make Umbar a "grasland/desert" region? I always kind of thought Numenorians could survive down there without too much trouble. I'm really new to this so I understand if this was a really dumb question.

[marceror]

My good humored post is gone. I honestly thought that was clever enough to stay. Nothing nasty... just a little old fashioned humor, that seemed to be appreciated by most, even the OP.

I guess I'll refrain from humor on this board in future.

[robroy]

Wow! I for one enjoy his mods and the sub mods as well. From a man that runs this mod on a 10 year old computer, I'd say Kong's mods knock out any others. Probably best to close this thread now since there is no more sense in it. Praise King Kong!