Evil and God

[Taiji]

Why did god create evil?

Is God evil?

If the evil label is applied to those we know have done evil, and we predict will do it again when the opportunity arises, then how do Jews/Christians/Muslims reconcile the Great Flood/Armageddon and other God-made catastrophes/end-time myths?

How do you get to keep calling God good exclusively when he's also evil?

Or is it like a trade-off? He does a load more good stuff than evil stuff, so on balance you call him good?

Possibly it all hinges on the definition of evil-good. But I don't get it at all really and just want to get some opinions.

My thanks for any sincere explanation

[Helm]

Evil occurs when humans use their freewill to go against the Moral Law and they know on some level when they are doing it.

[Squiggle]

Why is God killing someone an evil act?

[Logios]

God is everything (including all gods of all religions) and everything is God. There is no such thing as evil except in the eye of the beholder. It is an expression used by some when faced with a facet of God unrecognizable for them from their religious viewpoint.
Sorry for repeating myself, maybe you should have recycled an old thread instead of making a new one @Taiji.

[Miracles]

There is no such thing as evil except in the eye of the beholder. It is an expression used by some when faced with a facet of God unrecognizable for them from their religious viewpoint.
.

No on the contrary there is such a thing as evil. Choosing to deny that fact doesn't make it any better or make evil disappear.

[Taiji]

Evil occurs when humans use their freewill to go against the Moral Law and they know on some level when they are doing it.

So evil is a direct result of the Moral Law you identify?

God is everything (including all gods of all religions) and everything is God. There is no such thing as evil except in the eye of the beholder. It is an expression used by some when faced with a facet of God unrecognizable for them from their religious viewpoint.

There is also no such thing as good except in the eye of the beholder? - Or to you everything is good (including evil)?

No on the contrary there is such a thing as evil. Choosing to deny that fact doesn't make it any better or make evil disappear.

And god created it?

If he exists, then you couldn't possibly condemn his actions as evil.

Even if he is the source of it? Could you call creating evil a good act?

And if he doesn't, then how do we determine what is evil or good, anyway? Who says?

Is there a reason why you need to 'determine' with an allegedly external authority simply giving you the answer?

Also why do you need to determine what is 'good' and 'evil' at all?

[Vizsla]

Evil exists.
The Christian God is all-good and all-powerful.
These are contradictory statements.

If he is good he would want to prevent evil things from happening.
If he is all powerful he would be able to prevent evil things from happening.
Yet evil things happen all the time.

So either he is not good or he is not omnipotent, or he does not exist.
Choose.

[Squiggle]

Evil exists.
The Christian God is all-good and all-powerful.
These are contradictory statements.

If he is good he would want to prevent evil things from happening.
If he is all powerful he would be able to prevent evil things from happening.
Yet evil things happen all the time.

So either he is not good or he is not omnipotent, or he does not exist.
Choose.

Prove it.

[Closetu]

"Why is God killing someone an evil act?"
"If he is good he would want to prevent evil things from happening."

I think the dilemma here is that God will hold anyone responsible if they watch the helpless suffer and die while all powerful God does nothing to facilitate the situation. But when God does intervene and punish the wicked (may it be flood or armageddon), people wouldn't hesitate to call His action evil because God's moral standards are very high and everyone, including children, falls under that judgment.

[Ex Tenebris Lux]

Evil exists.
The Christian God is all-good and all-powerful.
These are contradictory statements.

If he is good he would want to prevent evil things from happening.
If he is all powerful he would be able to prevent evil things from happening.
Yet evil things happen all the time.

So either he is not good or he is not omnipotent, or he does not exist.
Choose.

How about simply, God Is?

Just for sake of argument.

[Logios]

There is also no such thing as good except in the eye of the beholder? - Or to you everything is good (including evil)?

Yes everything to me is good and evil does not exist (and is not included therefore). We act wrongly against eachother solely out of fear.

Evil exists.
The Christian God is all-good and all-powerful.
These are contradictory statements.

If he is good he would want to prevent evil things from happening.
If he is all powerful he would be able to prevent evil things from happening.
Yet evil things happen all the time.

So either he is not good or he is not omnipotent, or he does not exist.
Choose.

The concept of God does not originate in christianity (unlike Yahwe/Deus), and the term "he" does not really apply to the grand sum of everything.
God is heterogeneus and self-contradicting at least seen from our limited human perspective.
I wonder if this answered your question.

[Vizsla]

God is heterogeneus and self-contradicting at least seen from our limited human perspective.
I wonder if this answered your question.

It was not a question and saying that everything is unknowable is not an answer. It’s not in any way a useful answer, anyway.

[CamilleBonparte]

Even if he is the source of it? Could you call creating evil a good act?

Like I said, this would be impossible. If God exists, then you couldn't consider anything he does "evil", as evil's meaning could only be anything against God. By God I'm referring to first cause, the creator of the universe, a perfect being, the objective moral standard, etc. AKA the Abrahamic concept of God. Either he exists and is perfect goodness, or he doesn't exist and words like "good" and "evil" are little more than wedding vows.

Is there a reason why you need to 'determine' with an allegedly external authority simply giving you the answer?

Without an absolute standard to go on then all we have is our own opinions and viewpoints, which is all well and good but utterly worthless to people other than yourself.

Also why do you need to determine what is 'good' and 'evil' at all?

It would seem more appropriate to me if you asked yourself this question. If you don't believe in God anyway, what do you care? How can you determine the acts of what you perceive to be a fictional character "evil", and why would you attempt to do so anyway?

[Taiji]

Like I said, this would be impossible. If God exists, then you couldn't consider anything he does "evil", as evil's meaning could only be anything against God. By God I'm referring to first cause, the creator of the universe, a perfect being, the objective moral standard, etc. AKA the Abrahamic concept of God. Either he exists and is perfect goodness, or he doesn't exist and words like "good" and "evil" are little more than wedding vows.

Ah I see, so god can't be evil because your definition of the word evil in a sense privileges god.

Everything that god does is good even when it would be judged as evil were the same deed performed by a man.

In his image but nothing like his substance, roughly.

Without an absolute standard to go on then all we have is our own opinions and viewpoints, which is all well and good but utterly worthless to people other than yourself.

I think you mean those like me, not just me. And I'm not so sure as you that there are only people like you and people like me.

So then why do you find the discussion and learning that educated adults engage in utterly worthless when it's about morality?

I wonder if it's because you think god is telling you what to do in this regard.

And then I wonder if you believe in god so that you can be told what to do in this regard.

Afterall it's a lot of responsibility being an adult that decides things like this for his or herself.

It would seem more appropriate to me if you asked yourself this question. If you don't believe in God anyway, what do you care? How can you determine the acts of what you perceive to be a fictional character "evil", and why would you attempt to do so anyway?

I'm interested in people like you and how your beliefs can appear coherent with reality to you.

[Phier]

It would seem more appropriate to me if you asked yourself this question. If you don't believe in God anyway, what do you care? How can you determine the acts of what you perceive to be a fictional character "evil", and why would you attempt to do so anyway?

Because there is no fanatic like a religious fanatic. The public consciousness needs to be shifted away from legislated morality based on archaic teachings. While many if not most of the morality in something like the Bible is fine, all long term religions will by default have a 'good' moral code to some extent, when you start getting into sex, blasphemy, even food, religious morality gets a bit silly.

The other issue is there is no bigot like a religious bigot. Religious people learn you are an atheist and you are persona non-grata. Given dominion most religions will hate most other religions (see world history for examples), there is one thing they all agree on is that atheists are a threat and need to be dealt with.

By pointing out what we see as the bizarre notion that somehow god is loving while being a complete dick at times, perhaps some thinking individuals may take note.

[Tankbuster]

Like I said, this would be impossible. If God exists, then you couldn't consider anything he does "evil", as evil's meaning could only be anything against God.

So while any creature or cosmic being that drowned an entire planet for not behaving themselves, would be rightly called petty, vindictive and cruel, when your good-by-definition-God does it that makes it all okay.
It doesn't take much effort to see that this paradoxical nonsense only appears rational to the congenitally already-convinced.

Not to mention that the story makes zero sense.

Without an absolute standard to go on then all we have is our own opinions and viewpoints, which is all well and good but utterly worthless to people other than yourself.

Our own opinions and viewpoints got us to the Moon. I'd be careful about underestimating the strength of convictions and a rational consideration for the conviction of others. It's all we have, and it got us this far - religious window-dressing notwithstanding.

Not to mention that having an absolute standard is worthless unless you have some way of determining that the standard actually is good.

[Miracles]

And god created it?

Ah sorry I just checked this thread again.

No God didn't create evil.

Men are endowed with free will. We are able to choose between evil or good in everything we do.
However men have come up to build sophistication as a means of self defense to whatever evil he or she might have committed and as a way to escape the weight of conscience.

The fact that every person can relate between evil and good is in itself an indirect proof that a universal moral laws exist. Of course many adults have decided to refute this simple facts.

Men are moral beings. This is what differentiate us from the animals though lately it has been shown on occasions that animals too could display adherence to moral laws. But the differentiation still exists that every man person is to be expected to be a moral being. In that I do not mean good people but people who are able to differentiate between good and evil. Of course there's exception such as in the case of psychopathy but that's an illness caused by mutation in the genetic set that causes a person to be morally absent.

Now I wrote that God didn't create evil because from my personal experience of God, little as it is, God is never evil. God created men who have the capacity to choose out of his own free will.
Now I am compelled to tell you that God is good. The very foundation of God is holiness. It's his mark of authority. The very instance God commited sin is the very instant God would lose His authority[read power] but this is simply impossible as God is characterized by being holy.

When people attribute God to be evil they are looking and judging from their lack of knowledge and from the eyes of men. It's a prejudice and an arrogance to say that God is evil or could commit evil act.

I'm a Christian and now I attest these attribut of God which I know in my life:
1. A planner. He gives what is necessary for a person to receive what He meant to give in the end. Thus He is also a provider.
2. Able to change people's heart [in an instant]. An experience would be God giving an explosion of love to Jesus Christ to a person so that person can receive certain blessings.
3. Understanding, personal and loving. God loves people like no one loves anything. God loves even people who do not know Him at all. His love is so beyond platonic love. it is pure, sincere, expecting nothing in return and overwhelming.
4. Generous, giving without being asked. An experience would be God forgiving my sins eventhough at the time I didn't ask for it. I was overjoyed then.

I know the above are not proofs. I'm merely trying to give a testimony. The above I'm aware are personal and many people will not be able to understand it thus not able to accept it.

That is the God I know in my life. Thus I can say God is good. My experience tells me that. It is only logical to say [so far] that God is good. Though I must say that at times God can be strict too like not allowing people like me to stare in the direction of His face and have a glimpse of His face(but I guess I am a sinner and God the creator of all is not just a man). The God I know is not a meek God. I was surprised at this in the beginning.

[The spartan]

Ah sorry I just checked this thread again.

No God didn't create evil.

Men are endowed with free will. We are able to choose between evil or good in everything we do.
However men have come up to build sophistication as a means of self defense to whatever evil he or she might have committed and as a way to escape the weight of conscience.

Sorry to pop in here, but this is what caught my attention. If we are to assume god is omnipotent, that means he fully understood in what he was allowing when giving humans free will. That is to say: god knew what happens with free will, he made humans with free will, and so he ultimately made evil. Being omnipotent, god knows exactly who will commit evil and when, and so facilitates that evil.

[Mortality]

That would imply God is real.

[Miracles]

That would imply God is real.

Oh God is real just that most people do not know that.